I think that's pretty damning, in fact unless you were going to PRETEND to be the Detective from the start then I've been riding the wrong horse...and I know you're capable of that.

However, why didn't moss point this out, eh?

==================
guys
one major thing
i'm ****ed up
mentally
so i checked the voted
and i'm not readings straight.. so if anyone asked me anything.. i didn't notice

but i was in a grapplin match today.. and i hurt myself a little.. and... well frankly.. i'm not thinking straight.. i'm gonna go lay down. hopefully be back before 10 tonight..
==========================

The mafia've got to Oblivion, I think the Doctor should protect him tonight.

Man, trying to make any sense of all of this is giving me a headache!

Initially, I was suspicious of Sanshiro and Coopels, because they were adamantly against following the initial plan that most seemed to want to follow.

Then there was Chunky, kong and Gueritol, none of who were posting, and seemed they may be lurking mafia. kong did the same last game because he was townie and didn't want to play unless he was something more (special role), so either he was townie again, or was smart enough to use last game as a set-up for this game. Chunky...well, who knows. He's active playing the game and posting in other forums, so it did seem weird that he wasn't posting here.
Gueritol did start posting, but nothing really of value...but does strike me as just a lost townie (first game).

Then there was Renno, Neb, Sage, tarim, Corflu, dark, mwmoss, Biscuit and bud. Some did/said some things that were odd, but none of them just jumped out at me as being blatantly mafia.

And it's hard to make connections based on vote history, just from day 1. The longer we go, the more value I think the vote history will have, but for now, I can't really make any obvious distinctions, as several people have flip-flopped a couple of times, while others have voted on only one person and stayed with that vote. I think the outcome of the latest conflict- the mwmoss vs. Sage issue may shed more light in terms of who voted who going into tomorrow.

So that brings me now to the Sage/mwmoss issue, and trying to figure out which one is the detective.

Looking at it from both angles:

Sage is mafia- Looked like he may bite the bullet, so tried a last ditch effort. His claim would accomplish 2 things- (1) Save his own hide and (2) Force the real detective (mwmoss) to reveal himself. Even if he is mafia and gets lynched, he got the detective to come out so his mafia buddies have a much better chance for success.

Sage is the detective- He was about to get lynched for a different play/post style (which was caused by playing an unfamiliar role) so was forced to come out and reveal his identity. His hope is that we believe him, the doc will protect him, and he can get down to the business of finding the mafia.

mwmoss is mafia- He saw the claim by Sage, and knowing they had 4 this game instead of 3, knew they had a little room to maneuver and decided this would be the perfect time to cause a lot of confusion among us. If it works like they hope, then we lynch our own detective. Even if he goes the next day, it would be a very successful stunt for the mafia.

mwmoss is the detective- He sees the claim by Sage and is forced to counter-claim (damn mafia!). He now knows he is vulnerable, and must hope we believe him, the doc protects him, and he can get down to the business of finding the remainder of the mafia.

That's the 4 possibilities I see.


WOW! And I just read Sage¡¦s post of how he spelled out Detective in one of his first posts. Unbelievable!

So, I guess I need to make a decision now. mwmoss has played/posted like he could be the detective¡Knothing he said would indicate that he wasn¡¦t. I can say the same for Sage.

I was leaning towards believing Sage, but the whole spelling out detective thing for me was a little too over-the-top and pre-planed for me. It just doesn¡¦t smell right. On the other hand, mwmoss has been a strong supporter of having a ¡¥list¡¦ for the detective to follow, which is a strong point in his favor, in my mind at least. So I will cast my vote against Sage, and hope I¡¦m right about mwmoss.

I agree with Neb 100% though, that either way it goes, the vigilante needs to use his night kill tonight if we lynch the detective. If we lynch Sage and he is the detective, then mwmoss needs to get the night hit. If we lynch mwmoss, and he is the detective, then Sage needs to get the night hit.

Whew! Sorry for such a long post! ļ

I should have remembered that waronline plays this game backwards. Everywhere else the person claiming FIRST gets the benefit of the doubt. Here any half-done counterclaim outweighs it.

You guys know how well I plan things. Yes, it could be me being mafia...but how would I Have known I would have to claim detective? It makes more sense that, upon receiving my role, I put in a back up plan.

That's me to a T!

Whatever. You guys are seriously no fun to play with, and seem BENT on letting the mafia win every game.

Finally the slurs on our 'funness'. No, I think you're a little hot round the collar, Sage. Moss had been intimating his Detectivity in his posts also but not as blatantly as you.

Ok, nobody noticed you spelling out Detective but what self respecting PI would give the mafia even one chance to spot that on day one and incriminate themselves needlessly.
I'm changing my vote back to you a third time now and if I'm still wrong then you only have yourself to blame.

I'm sorry I said you weren't fun to play with...if that were true, I wouldn't play. I've just been sick the past couple of days and on edge. SOrry.

The spelling out thing is a common tactic which I mistakenly thought you guys would recognize. Remember that most of my experience is on mafiascum.net...where people take the game really seriously. My playstyle has adapted to fit that website, and now I find myself sabotaging the town not once or twice but three games in a row.

Nobody goes through and puts together random letters from random posts, so I figured it was safe. When the game ends, I'd like the mafia to let me know if they saw it or not.

I was going to investigate Coopels tonight, but after this definitely investigate tarim. And use your vigilante kill on moss.

If tarim turns out to be mafia too, it won't matter that I died.

Furthermore, can't you see why mwmoss-mafia would support an investigation list? It tells the mafia WHO the town already trusts, and the doctor can't protect them all. As quick as people were cleared, they'd be killed...the same turn or the turn after. It also gives the mafia time to know when THEIR time is up. Trust me, if mwmoss's name had been next on the list, he would have claimed detective THEN to get out of it.

Giving information to the mafia about who the town considers innocent and who they're still doubting is an IDIOTIC move, and that's why I could not support it. Were I mafia, I would have laughingly added my approval.

I don't know.

I intitually voted for Sage before his revelation happened because of his odd behavior early on, which now i realize makes more sense that he has a special role instead of being mafia. He has been mafia before so he knows how to play that role well enough to not draw suspicions like that, at least not so early in a game.

By now, I think i know Sage's style of play well enough to at least get certain feelings when he is up to something and in this case i don't get those feelings. Sage is a great player who would definitly place a thing like spelling out detective in an early post to use later, but at the same time he's lazy most of the time. So he wouldn't bother putting in a backup plan like that in the rare case that he'd need it in the future since he is mafia. He just wouldn't do that when he knows there are easier ways to avoid suspicion as a mafia member, which is why i believe his claim over mwmoss.

In addition, when i read all of the claiming and counter claiming it strikes me more and more that it is mwmoss doing the false claiming. In any game a person who is really the detective would at least fight for their side of the issue or the right to live. Mwmoss seems to have given in to his fate by saying he wont argue the issue anymore, which only tells me that he knows that he'll die sometime soon. Only a mafia would know that they'll die once the real detective is found out by lynching them or (if we get it right) when we kill the fake claimer. So giving up so early doesn't make sense for the real detective, but it does for a mafia member. The detective should know that if they convince people they can be saved by the doc at night as I think Sage knows.

It has been said already, but with 4 mafia it would be very useful for one to give himself up to cause such confusion as this. I'm betting that's what mwmoss has done.

I'm voting Mwmoss.

Coopels, you are right. Sage is a good player. So good, in fact, that after the detective counter-claim...WOULDN'T HE HAVE VOTED FOR MWMOSS?!?!?!

Sage, you have such a good arguement built up, but you pull this stupid crap. How do you not have a vote for mwmoss up there already? Again...WTF!?! You only have yourself to blame for getting into this predicament with your stupid style of play...mafia genius? I think not.

However! I saw the town drool all over themselves the last 2 games. It's inevitable...the townies all take stupid pills or something before the game starts, and it kills me that I'm on Team Stupid. But being on Team Stupid does allow me one thing...to play stupid!

I vote for Mwmoss...

Neb

Coopels, I think one thing we should all note is that moss was typing up his post at the same time Sage posted his DETECTIVE disclaimer, in fact it appeared just after. Moss obviously never read Sages post and that's why he didn't come back for more.
Now reread moss's last post in context of Neb's prior post.

yeah i thought that was a little odd myself, but i just attributed it to the sickness and just plain old forgetfulness.

I'm praying that Sage took some stupid pills earlier and is the detective...

tarim, you better be praying that we don't lynch mwmoss...and find that he's mafia. Funny that your post calling for a counter-claim is followed by a counter-claim within 9 minutes! What are the chances...

Neb

Sage is good at being mafia. He was about to be lynched and claimed detective. Heck, I would have done the same in his shoes if I was mafia. mwmoss counter-claimed although he really shouldn't have, because the mafia know knows who he is and is in danger of being lynched himself. I do believe that Sage is mafia, we snuffed him out and now he's trying to turn the tables. The last thing we need is for townies to lynch the detective on the first day. Not much way out at this point. We either lynch the mafia, or we lynch the detective. If we lynch anyone else, then the mafia kills the detective tonight, unless the doctor can figure out who is lying and who is telling the truth.

There were many ways for Sage to have defended himself without saying he was detective (if he was really a townie). mwmoss had to counter-claim because Sage was actually starting to save himself. The more I read both of their posts, the more certain I am that Sage is mafia.

My vote remains Sage.

I forgot to vote...damn it. If you guys don't believe me about being sick, I'll be happy to send you guys a picture. Or a sample of my diarehea. Or just ask Clarisa next time she's in IRC.

I'm voting moss now.

I fail to see your connection or anything that helps mwmoss' cause, Tarim. In fact it just makes me more certain about mwmoss. Even if i'm wrong about sage then the vigilante should take him out in the night. Either way, right now the detective has been compromised, at least we get one mafia from it. I just disagree that Sage is the mafia.

Wow. Two people claiming to be the detective. One has to be telling the truth and the ohter mafia. I see kong and Chunky (still no posts) have never voted. Kong does not even have a vote thread. I assume Chunky will be mod killed. The reason is wondering how many it takes to lynch.

Both are suspicious. I thought Sage more suspicious. Howoever he came out when it appeared he was going to be killed. Which if I was detective and about to be lyched is what I would do too.

Yet I believe Biscuit is Townie, and he thinks it is Sage. (As I said before the minute he picks someone everyone goes and votes for them!) His feeling is usually correct. Yet I trusted in Nebs analysis early and now follow his logic and agree with him on mwmoss and why.

Coopels is one of "the experienced 4" and goes for mwmoss. So that is 2 for mwmoss and 1 for Sage from the "vets".

I am not sure who to believe at this point in the he said/she said wars. I would like to hear from Sanshiro and a few others than Neb and Coopels on the topic before deciding.

Oh, and Kong and Chunky PLEASE get active!

D-E-T-E-C-T-I-V-E!

Sorry, this just makes me laugh for some reason. And now I've started to drool all over myself...and Sage is talking about diarhea in the forums! Does it get any better than this?

MwMoss, you need to post more...Sage is very convincing. I want to believe you, but you just tucked your tail and went and hid. Suck it up and post something! Help the town make a decision! If you are detective it is your responsibility to convince us...I'm voting for you and your defeatist attitude. Sure, I may be making a mistake by voting for you, but at least I'm talking about why, and making a case. All you leave us with is, "It doesn't matter what I say..." I guess that fits in line with the town history though...bunch of droolers...

And Coopels...you better hope we don't lynch Sage...and he turns out mafia...or you're toast too!

Me? Well, I'm probably not looking good to the town either, right now...

Neb

Neb, regarding the counterclaim, I read it as 18 minutes.

(Neb wipes the drool from his chin)

Yes...yes indeed. It was 18 minutes. Well, that settles it...now I'm voting for...well, I just don't know anymore!