Grr... what happened to the plan? We need a good, solid plan...

Wastelands' analysis proved that the Masons' coming out is bad. Having them come out would be a very small advantage to the mafia, but with the players we got here I think even the smallest advantage with be deadly for us townies.

Now, we need a good, solid strategy for the Vigilante (when to use his kill, who to kill, and if he should come out), and also, MUCH more importantly, the detective and doc.

Now I got school soon, so when I come back I wanna see a lot of posting .

Gueritol: Yes, you are allowed to claim which role you have.

Publicly. Not in private.

Exactly dark- what happened to following some kind of plan?

That was the basics of the first 2-3 pages...laying the framework for what plan and how we would follow it. Now I come back and see on page 7 that it appears we have totally abandoned the idea of a plan at all and we're just all doing our own thing.

I really don't like this at all. It stinks! It will only help the mafia, allowing them to hide in the mass confusion that NOT following some kind of a plan will create.

I'm off to work now, and will re-read and make a contributing/substantial post when I get home in the morning. I hope we can re-think our strategy and go back to having a plan of some sort.

Can we just take it step by step?

Step one would be just the basic question:

Are you in favor of following some kind of plan?

I vote YES to that question!

Why haven't then anyone just come out and say: I'm ?.
I only read one do it ...
For example why haven't you sage? or Shangiro?

@ wasteland ... yes I'm also.

Gueritol: Everyone would come out and say they were a townie in one form or another. I saw that the first few games when people exclaimed up front "I am a townie". No one cares and I did it and then they thought it was suspicious! lol. Declare if you wish but it is generally taken with a grain of salt. In your circumstance perhaps moreso.

At this stage I thought for day 1 we were going to protect Biscuit and also investigate him to make sure. As for a target I have laid my hunches out, but have not seen solid evidence before then. Typically the Biscuit posts right before the end and everyone follows his thoughts. Which may not be a bad way to go here.

sage you are sayin im a mafia i said in my last game im always a townie i hate being townie so why post when i could observe and vote... that way the mafia doesnt target me as a prime mark anyway

I'm in favor of a plan. Can anyone guess what it is?

Step One: Take our time (we've been doing this! Yay!)

Step Two: Examine evidence (less of this on our parts)

Step Three: Decide on someone (active) to pressure

Step Four: See how they respond under pressure.

Step Five A: Lynch them
Step Five B: Move onto the next suspect.

At this point, I'm going to go on a strong piece of evidence we have. Corflu...why were you so explicitly "voting with Neb?" That seems like classic buddying-up tactics to me.

Explain.

I had been saying for a while that I suspected the people that were not saying a thing at all. Gueritol was high on that list along with Chunky and a few others. Last game everyone seemed to ignore what I said and it got us nowhere. This game it appeared that someone (Neb) finally thought what I was suggesting had merit. And I felt strongly for it.

hey look kong is here! hi kong

it only took 5 votes to get kong to post, well I'm not ready to change it and if I don't get any suspicions by day 2 next vote is going to chunky, maybe with 5 votes on him he'll start playing too

My main goal behind voting for kong was to get him to post and he did... kinda. His post didn't do anything for me to alleviate my suspicion of him as mafia, but i'll admit it doesn't really incriminate him either. All it really does is to say he's not planning on contributing to the discussion at all and maybe vote if he feels like it. He says he's observing and voting, but so far he hasn't even posted a vote post in that thread so i have doubts about that too.

Right now my feelings are that if he isn't mafia, then he's at best a useless townie and a guy that doesn't want to play. One way we kill a mafia which is good, the other we lose a townie that isn't contributing anything of value which doesn't hurt us much besides losing one of our number. Like i said before if he wants to try posting something of value to help prove his innocence then i might reconsider my vote for him.

Othewise i don't care if we lynch kong, at least we'll learn something from the night kill and perhaps from the detective as well. By all means follow the plan if you think it'll work whoever the detective is as well as the doctor, but don't let the town decide your role for you. The same goes for the vigilante. The town has mafia hiding in it so anything the rest of us say can't be trusted 100%, only your own feelings can and should be guiding your decisions. Hopefully you'll get it right.

That still doesn't mean we can suggest though Coopels. In the end, everyone will do thier own thing. I see no problem in asking the Detective to investigate Biscuit. At this point I truly believe Buscuit is a townie. Still, asking the Detective to still investigate him makes sense. If we assume Biscuit was investigated when the Detective does not come forward tommorrow, well, at least we have something to go on. We could be wrong, but I will feel comfortable enough to go with that assumption and hope enough other people will as well.

Sage, you have made some good points. I also think Corflu adequately answered your question. I still think Sanchiro has not adequately answered mine and I will also point out I think Coopels is doing the same thing, namely trying to sabotage any type of concrete plan we come up with.

Having said that, I think Kong has failed to respond to the pressure. Also, looking at the votes, I believe that your suspicion of Kong is justified. In either case, he is not really helping, so I will change my vote for now.

I'm actually all for a plan, but i'd really prefer one that doesn't rely heavily on the old plan that hasn't ever worked. So far i haven't come up with anything myself, but i've been trying to think of something. Throughout this game i've really only denounced the "sage" plan that people seem all to confortable with. Since i was mafia during it's first mention and use i realised back then how easy it could be used to manipulate the town and we did do that then. The next game, Neb and his mafia buddies were barely even known because of the confusion that plan caused. That's why i still think it's a bad plan to follow.

Plus i know we can all ask the detective to do certain things. I was just trying to make whoever it is realize they have to make their own decisions in that role. They can follow suggestions if they want, but in the long run i think it's best that they listen to their own self instead of people who could be mafia in disguise.

Ok, fair enough. I think the 'Sage' plan fell apart the first game because you nailed the detective first night. Only that allowed you to trick Tarim about Sage. I had you dead to rights, maybe that was why you offed me!

So, for this game you think we should have some type of plan. Well, I think the plan is still to ask the detective to investigate Biscuit the first night and if Biscuit is a good guy, the detective remains hidden. I think most of us also said that we should leave who the doc protects up to him.

Along with this, though maybe not part of any particular plan, is that the Masons wait until day 2 to come forward. This was not as clear, but I think a slim majority thought this way.

Neb, you have been sort of keeping track of all this, does it sound about right?

I agree with what you say, moss, and am going along with the plan.

I don't, however agree with lynching kong. He may be mafia but there are more suspicious posters out there.

I sat listening and analyzing the posts. Four mafia makes it very hard to figure this out. But right now I feel kong is a townie and the Sage is mafia. So I am going to vote Sage. He is either mafia leading us down the garden path, or doing a poor job at being a townie. He gave up on his townie plan too quickly for my liking, which is not normal for him.

BTW, pay attention to the fact that Chunky is a regular poster at the Bug Forum!!!

Unfortunatly, i tend to agree with Biscuit here. I think kong would have posted a little more if only to defend himself if he were mafia. My goal for voting for him was to see his response either with an interested post making me suspect him a lot more or with one like what he did making him seem uninterested and barely playing. Lynching him still wouldn't hurt us much though since he is uninterested seemingly and therefore largely useless.

I still hate the plan, but it is useful to see who changed their minds about it quickly once i started denouncing it. Chief among them is Sage like Biscuit said. As i went back to reread posts i noticed that Sage also shifted the focus of that plan away from him this game early saying he wasn't important enough to investigate and i do know he's a good player if he plays. I have enough suspicions about him to change my vote though so in effect Sage's own step 3 from above is being used.

@mwmoss: Actually i offed you in that game because it didn't matter. You weren't very vocal or adament about your convictions so it seemed most people ignored you in that game. Besides nobody suspected you at all in that game and we needed someone to die.

Wow! We're up to 5 on Sage! I am not going to vote him yet, but I was thinking the same things that have been mentioned. Sage has written a lot of things that are contrary to his arguements from previous games...where he WAS a townie. He just isn't holding true to his townie form...

Coopels also makes me nervous...he wants to lynch kong and learn something from the night kill? What the heck is there to learn from the night kill? Nothing, except that a townie is dead. You learn all your info from posting and who votes for who...now he jumps on Sage. Is he trying to push this day to an end?

I'll look again later today, and if Sage is still alive and hasn't made any coherent post, I may pile my vote on. (there is a small part of me that says, "leave Sage alone.")

Neb

Well i'll admit that does look kinda suspicious for me, but with the night vote thing and kong i meant that if we do go forward and make a mistake with him then at least whoever gets killed at night tells us some things. Otherwise i do want day 1 to end. If we spend to much time argueing and counter argueing than everything gets confused and confusion is the mafia's best friend in this game not time.

Besides i don't expect to live all that long in this game, might as well speak my piece before then.