By the way...wasn't Renno playing this game? Where'd he go?

Yeah i realized that i'd probably die if Sage is mafia before i said anything, but i figured it was worth more to say what i think is true. If mwmoss is the mafia then at least Sage can be protected at night and can freely share his results. Since i do believe Sage is more the detective than mwmoss i'm strongly suggesting people change to vote mwmoss. Even if i'm wrong the vigilante can night kill sage and we kill a valuable mafia through that. So for now i'm going to say that the unwaivering support from Tarim and Biscuit for mwmoss is rather suspicious. I'm at least willing to admit that i could definitly be wrong.

So am I though, Coopels. Why do you think I've moved off Sage twice already?

yeah but from what i've seen you don't even allow for the possibility that mwmoss isn't the detective, which is strange without other knowledge.

This certainly got intersting real quickly. The key will be to watch the votes. Remember, the mafia knows who the real detective is, so even if they keep one out, they will still need the other 3 to vote for the him to lynch him. Since kong and chunky aren't voting, they will have a very hard time getting a lynch if all four of them don't vote for the detective. 8 to lynch people...even if we do get the wrong guy, we should have plenty of clues as to who the mafia are.

Neb

As Neb noted, "part of me wonders why he [moss] would make a false counterclaim. It would just be too stupid to do if he was mafia...and also exposing his buddy tarim in the process. Which would mean that tarim is incredibly stupid and has no idea how this game works. From playing last game with him, he's not that stupid...I think."

Well I had tied my colours to his mast so it'd be a smarter call for him to take a townie supporter with him if he was mafia. Point is I'm nobody's "buddy" but an isolated townie trying to make logical assumptions.

I too noticed Renno posting elsewhere and conveniently avoiding this thread...and I've supported him earlier too.

Coppels says "If mwmoss is the mafia then at least Sage can be protected at night and can freely share his results." However I prefer to still protect and investigate Biscuit day 1 per the plan. I think the real detective still needs to still do that or we may be in deep 'mog droppings'.

I like Coopels logic here though to cover. "Even if i'm wrong the vigilante can night kill sage and we kill a valuable mafia through that."

Why not work this both ways!!?? Pick Sage and if he is really Detective then vigilante kill mwmoss. Likewise pick mwmoss and if he is really Detective then kill Sage! This way we get a 50/50 chance to kill a mafia up front and worst case we get a mafia kill no matter what.

Assuming we can do that I agree to put up mwmoss before Sage and hope we are right. I'd hate to lose Sage's investigation power if he is the detective. Yet surely don't want him active if he is mafia.

Still need to hear from the following on the issue.

chunky50
Renno
Sanshiro Sugata
kong
darkguy00000
Nebuchadnezer
gueritol
Bud_Chevy

Neb, you changed vote from mwmoss to Renno???? I don't get it.

Yup...still drooling on myself.

i just kinda assumed it would work both ways with the vigilante night killing the other guy between Sage and mwmoss assuming we lynch the detective.

Assuming we lynch the mafia, the detective will be known and so i think it's to our advantage for the doc to protect him if he manages to survive our lynch. He's already out so he can tell whatever information he finds out without additional risk.

I do think that Sage is the detective, but from another point of view i think Sage would be a more valuable detective than mwmoss, no offense moss. So besides my personal beliefs, i also hope i'm right so we have the better tool against the mafia.

I'll let you know when I'm done drooling, but for now, I want to see who votes for who. If I need to be the death vote, I will do it.

If the detective lives through the day, then he can investigate whoever he likes. No reason to bullseye Biscuit anymore, as the detective can simply tell us who he investigated. No point in investigating Biscuit, since he would be nightkilled if innocent, since the doc will be busy saving the detective, right? So, the detective is free to investigate whoever he wants to. In fact, saying we should still investigate him is questionable logic at best...

All thoughts of having an organized plan to follow have gone out the window. Nobody else should reveal their roles, since now the doc is tied up protecting the detective. We need as many regular "townies" out there to deflect nightkills from the doc while the detective hunts down the mafia.

Lists of who to investigate no longer are helpful. We must hope we lynch the right person, so that we have a chance of finding more mafia...vote wisely people! (and in darkguy's case...VOTE!)

Neb

I would love it to be 7 votes to 7 votes, with me putting big ol' #8 on someone! Yay!

you forgot kong's and chunky's cases too

5 - Sage
3 - moss

Right now.

neb you're just trying to get me to post...well as I stated I'm working too d**n much so basically can only post once a night. AND trying to get a handle on these infernal updates I am no miss g a fe ke s on m ke bo rd.

back in a few with a better post, for now I'll say my vote isn't staying on kong I will change it after my next post...stay tuned.

hmmm 2 claims of det and many arguements for both sides. This certainly sets the ball rolling, however it looks like we are going to lose our det first night.

question. This plan of lynching 1 then vigilante getting the other IF we are wrong. Does the moderator tell us who the vigilante was?

Also...we better get the mafia soon since they turned their attention to the moderator, there's a new twist don't kill the town kill the mod.

IF by chance we get the mafia and NOT the det I don't think the best move would be to investigate biscuit, I would like to see a couple others investigated but we may have only 1 chance here. I'd like to see neb investigated, he's pulling the same crap he did last game and fooled us, as I said in an earlier post I'd hate to think sage AND neb are both mafia. Holding vote to see which way the swing sways neb???

I can't jump from 1 side of the fence to the other arguing which would come first or counterclaim I have to just flip a coin.....SAGE

I dunno, my guts are twisting on this issue.

Just now getting through all of the drool from the last day.. WOW !!

Well sage the plan of voting for someone to put pressure on them took a very wild turn indeed..

I think that this is exactly the break the town needed.. Were guaranteed to get at least one mafia member after day and night one are over. This also allows us to increase our odds on day 2 of getting another mafia member.

Best case scenario: sage/moss lynched and they are mafia. doc protects and vigilante only kills the other if we mislynch. mafia night kills and the don't get lucky and take out a mason then masons come out and we pick off the rest of the mafia..

now to my vote, I have played with sage before, as most of you have, and he's one of the best mafia i've seen but when I've played with him and thought he was mafia he kept just enough doubt in my mind to keep from attacking him. But this time I feel like his claim is genuine and I now vote for moss.

Sage - 5 (Renno, tarim, moss, Wasteland, Biscuit)
mwmoss - 4 (Sage, Corlfu, Coopels, Bud)

Yes, Renno. I already said I'm waiting to see which way the votes goes...

I would recommend the detective investigate someone from the survivor's list if the lynch gets mafia, and someone from the dead list if the lynch is the detective.

(if Sage is lynched and is mafia, investigate those who voted moss. If Sage is lynched and is detective, investigate those who voted Sage.)

Where is everyone else? Come on people! Vote!

Neb

I really don't understand how some people are easily confused. It's very simple. There is almost no reason for the mafia to jump in with a counter-claim. mwmoss has to be telling the truth and Sage is not. Sage only claimed when he was about to be lynched. If he really was detective, there was no need for a counter-claim by the mafia. It just makes for an easy kill on one of them. So I'm positive we had the right mafia the first time...and he is Sage! Mafia often claims some role to flush out the real detectives/doctors once they are about to die as a last chance to save themselves. Please don't fall for this ruse.

Hah!

Sage has five votes on him. He needs eight I think to be lynched. That means a) He's mafia or b) two or more of the mafia are in that pile of people voting him.

Either/or, we get information.

In response to the actual dilemma, I really don't care. Does it matter who we kill? And I bet I could come up with a post where I have written the word "DOCTOR" as well. Does that make me doc? No, it doesn't.

We're going to kill ONE of these two. As of who its' going to be, that I have no idea on.