Yeah... we only got one new player, and a fair few that have played more than five. Of course, I am the most experienced player here in terms of WoL games .

Too early to point many fingers yet. We need to wait for everyone to post (well maybe you guys don't have to but I definitely am). We need each player to post a list of suspicions and explain them. Then we come up with a definite game plan which gives the town the maximum chance of success.

I'm going to withold my list until I know everyone is active.

Hello everyone

Now with that last game experience behind me I'm only too happy NOT to be a the moderator again... for a while. Writing a decent story is hard when you wish to entertain everyone. So Oblivion, you owe Sage and me and all the others who were moderators before to a good long story.

And now for some comments of my own:

1. Administration: Please do bear in mind that I live in a different time zone to most of you and am NOT on all the time, especially now as I'm not in any active WOL campaign. Plus, this coming weekend, I shall be away from Friday morning till Saturday night. I shall deal with Oblivion directly on this matter.

2. Story-line: I was a bit confused about Oblivions story-telling style... "medieval residents" faced with modern day gangs and police cars. The BR's also seem to have a good marketing department as stated by Oblivion "...he mumbled, "Damn PR's I hope the Falcs get rid..." Sorry Obi, just taking the Mik...

3. Actual game: This sounds like it's going to be fun. All these new roles like Masons and vigilantes. However there already seem to be the regular power-houses that hog the lime light; Sage, Biscuit, Cooples and Neb. What happens if two and not just one are of the Ryders (mafia)? That sort of contradicts the earlier notion of having just one "smart"/"experienced" game veteran in the mafia gang. hat is also somewhat insulting to former mafia players. Also, just imagine the nightmare scenario of having Sage, Biscuit, Coopels AND another person in the mafia. I'd be surprised if they don't assassinate each other within the first day...

But seriously,... while I all this supporting of the famous, so-far-unproven-Sage-method of investigation and protection goes on, I will suspect all those who vote little (bad Darkguy!) or come here and say little. So first on my current list is kong, for his comment is just irritating. But I will also guess that Oblivion has succumbed to the temptation and appointed one of the chief culprits (Sage,Biscuit,Coopels,Neb) into the mafia, so if a vote coalesces against one of them, I might join just for the victim's frustration factor.

Sorry for the long winded first post.
Good luck to us all... and I mean the townies only!

Coopels is hogging the limelight? I don't think the guys' even posted yet.

I like the idea of the "sage plan' becoming "The Biscuit plan" for this game. If he is a mafia we will be in deep trouble since he can be very convincing. And as a townie he has proved to be very good at deductive reasoning.

I have given up on trying to link any names with the method of death or anything. At first I thought that was worthwhile but it appears there is no link in these games. Especially with the short thread Oblivion provided.

We did not have enough of a TEAM discussion last game. Maybe that was my fault for not being as convincing in my posts or just player inactivity. But we need to vote together and not randomly follow the crowd as much this game. Sounds like there are a "big convincing four". I don't want to be "convinced" incorrectly.

Playing notes: Welcome to Chunky (a new player) and especially glad to see Coopels and Geuritol active. Also glad Oblivion is moderator so we don't have the first 3 pages dedicated to analysis of his role to be wrong again!

I wish there would have been more masons. What happens if one of them is killed? Then the remaining one has no one to talk to!?

Morning all,
I've had an enjoyable read of the last page and a half and I'm liking Renno's logic concerning only 1 Leader coming out, very Falc. Neb, trying quite hard it seems, overlooks this a couple posts later and talks about both Leaders coming out and Biscuit being investigated while drawing up lists.

This is a bit fishy, ie. not all that helpful to the town and the conversation between him and Sage at this point seems somewhat forced with Sage wanting both Leaders to remain hidden and pointing the finger at Neb simultaneously.

Sage's opening gambit is even more dodgy. I laughed when I read:
"Still, if the detective doesn't investigate me, you guys are bound to lynch me out of paranoia, and that'd be bad for the town."

roughly translated as Artie Zip saying:
"Marge, I would appreciate it if you didn't tell anyone about my busy hands.Not so much for myself,but I am so respected,it would damage the TOWN to hear it."

I think 1 Leader should come out, this makes the Detectives work a bit easier. He should in turn, investigate whoever he has a hunch on in day 1 rather than listen to all the players putting their hands up to be investigated. Finally, the Doctor should either protect the leader who comes out or himself the first night, leaving the mafia a difficult choice.

Ziff.. Artie Ziff.

The masons have no special powers other than the ability to talk to each other, correct?

Bah! I had a whole paragraph typed up then the game froze...and since people don't seem to like my ideas anyway (Sage), I'll just sit back and observe as the town drools all over themselves without any coherent plan...

Neb

Well, sorry for posting so late! I just got to work and look at all that happened in the night! A new game has started!

Neb, just because you and Sage live online and post alot do not assume most of us do not agree with you because we have not posted.

I like the 'Sage' plan, but applied to Biscut, as well as getting together a list. I would urge everyone to support it, but would warn not to let getting a list together distract us to much from trying to find mafia.

As for your suggestion about the Masons, I think they should remain hidden on day one. There is just to much info to be had from seeing who accuses whom and what votes are cast. No one will vote for a confirmed townie, but then on day 2 when one or both come forward, we can look back at votes and maybe figure out even more.

Well, thats my two cents for now. Long post just to say Im here, but then there was a page and half of activity already!

Neb, I actually like your ideas. The masons are a new twist. The basic problem any townie has is he doesn't know who is and who isn't mafia, whereas the mafia knows everyone who is a townie. If the townies have more information at their disposal, then they ave a better chance to discern who is mafia. With this in mind I suggest:

1) The two masons come out now and tell us who they are so each can confirm the other. This would tell us townies two people right off the the bat who are townies. If the mafia kill one of them, then this special ability is essentially useless. Also, the mafia has to choose between killing off known townies or randomly searching for the doc and detective.

2) The doctor protect me for tonight and the detective investigate me to verify that I'm townie and ease any fears others may have.

3) We draw up a list for the detective to investigate each night. If the detective doesn't come forward, then we know who else is a townie. This way the mafia cannot kill off the known townies faster than we find new ones. If the detective finds a mafia, then he needs to come out and tell us which one is mafia, and then the doctor can protect the investigator from that point on.

4) 4 mafia is a lot (I didn't like having 3 before) and we townies all need to coordinate with a unified plan to make this happen. Otherwise, the town just drools over itself, as Neb put it, and dies quickly.

Comments?

Hello all, looks to be quite the entertaining game...alot of quality players in this one. I just hope the outcome is better this game!

I like the Biscuit plan, provided the detective actually follows it. I followed it last game, but Oblivion didn't follow it the game before. As someone said above...while the plan (and any list to follow) is good, don't let it take the place of logic and reasoning. We don't need to get lazy trying to find the mafia just because we have a plan.

As far as the masons go...I think they only need to come out if they are about to be lynched. Then they can confirm each other. What purpose does it serve having them come out unless they NEED to (we're about to lynch them)? As I see it, it only narrows it down for the mafia, giving them increased odds of hitting the doc or detective...which would be very bad. I'm suspicious of anyone wanting them to come forward already at this point of the game.

Sans- Why would kong not saying much cause you grief? I don't think he made more than 2 posts last game and was a townie. He said he gets bored with being townie, so I'd actually be more concerned if he posted alot...that would mean he's actually got a 'cool' role.

Neb- Already a much different start to this game than last. Good ideas so far, without the 'wishy-washy' from last game makes me think initally you're townie, unless your just that good to be able to flip-flop styles like that.

Sage- Alot of posting so far! Perhaps your "apathy" that let us down last game is gone? You can really help us when you put in the effort...glad to see you active in this one.

dark- Did you even cast one vote against someone last game? Sometimes you just have to roll the dice man...there's NO WAY to be sure about a vote, so please contribute.

Renno- No where near the number of posts that you had to start last game off. I can't blame you though...look what it got you!

I'll stop there for now and see what everyone else has to say. Be back latter today.

I don't like your plan one bit Biscuit:

1. I suspect that drawing the 'Sage plan' on to you is just a ruse, as you know that it won't happen. It won't happen because the Doc will be too paranoid on the first day to care about you and he will take care of himself. It happened in the last game. The 'Sage plan' also will not happen because we have no way to confirm that whoever gives you the all clear is actually the detective.

2. I don't like the Sage plan. I think it's restrictive and limiting and forces us to concentrate on just one person, while all other arguments and suspicions are neglected, even if they have merit.

3. I disagree about the masons coming out now. Our only chance to use them is if these two survive a little and by sharing information between them can pinpoint the mafia. In a game with so many mafia, getting rid of the masons at the get go, if silly. Giving up your only advantage, even if a tiny one, is not smart.

4. Remember your gut feeling from your last game, Biscuit?... This is not truly you Biscuit. Your post doesn't read like your previous ones and its logic is too clear and informative... too easily trying to buy the new players... too... pink! Remember how in your last game you asked everyone to believe you because you had a gut feeling... This last post of yours stinks and you are now my #1 suspect.

xoxoxo

I can see some of the concerns for the masons coming out because it gives the mafia 2 less townies to guess from and increases their odds of hitting a special role, but I want to put my 2 cents in for why I think they should come out.

If the masons come out and confirm each other it also gives the town 2 less folks to consider as a possible lynch. If they come out I also think that it gives the vigilante 2 less folks to take a shot at..

Going back to what Sage said earlier about our worst case scenario. With them coming out it gives us the best option because it allows us to prolong the “worst case scenario” that we’re dead by day 3 because mathematically we’re only taking a 4 in 12 shot at hitting one of the mafia vs a 4 in 14 shot at hitting one of them. And if we do miss lynch and kill one of our own it allows the vigilante even better odds of hitting a mafia ( 4 in 11 ) that night.

If they don’t come out I don’t see the usefulness of their role to the town nor do I see the disadvantage to the town of KNOWING who two of our members are??

Now granted if we mislynch and the vigilante misses were screwed but according to sage were dead by day 3 anyway

===MOD NOTES===

I won't go through and quote.. but this is in response to Sans' questions.

1. Everyone is to message me if they plan on being absent for some time.

2. Medieval resident doesn't mean medieval time period... its more of a replacement for a race or ethnic division in New Wol.. think west side story. I am in the musical this year at my school, and it is my inspiration for this story line. (Obviously NOT exactly...) This also explains my PR slip... I changed it to BR...

3. I did not divy up the teams for 'fairness' or 'unfairness' I selected the power roles with random numbers. This made everyone's chance of being chosen equal.

4. In response to the unnumbered opening remark. I did mod mafia before. Go back and read the French Revolution Mafia thread. I do write good scenes... I just had musical and midterms this week, so I didn't bother with working over hard on an opening... The tragedy is defined by the action and the meat of the play, not by the word the author opened with...
==========

I just realized, in both mafia's I've moderated, I introduced something new. Last time was the Agent of the Crown.

This time its the Masons...


Hmm I just find that interesting

Play on, fools, play on!

(Derived from the fall play production of the Three Musketeers at my school (I was Comte de Rochefort) when Louis yells 'Keep on, fools, Keep on! during the ballroom scene with the diamond tags and the thwarting of the cardinals plan )

I like the Biscuit ideas, however not the one about putting out the Masons early. While the town knows who to trust so the doctor and detective might last longer, these two are marked for death pronto.

I like the idea about the idea for a detective list. That was missing last game.

I'm just hanging here ... well see what can I do ... after all there is a bunch of us here.

Sanshiro's rant offers no plan of attack for the townies and throws out accusations pretty quickly. He seems to want to just go with "gut instinct" only, which of course we all plan to do anyways. But to increase the odds, I'd like to be protected by the doc at least. And I think the Sage plan does offer a lot for the townies, including clearing someone (me) who you might suspect or get paranoid about otherwise.

I've analyzed the mason roles in my head, and I find our odds increase greatly by them coming out early and here's why: We will know three people out of the 15 that are not mafia, me and the two masons. While this increases the odds of the mafia hitting the special roles, it also increase our odds of hitting the mafia first. Also, the mafia has a choice to make, kill a mason, or kill a possible doc/detective. My guess is that they will try to kill a doc or detective. That allows us to narrow the suspect lists even more because they will kill another townie that we didn't know was townie. Also, there is a greater chance for our detective to find a mafia after he investigates me. When the detective finds one, then he outs himself and we have even more townies that we know are townies. Even if he only finds a townie and keeps quiet, then because we know who he investigated ahead of time, we have even more townies who are cleared. It'll be hard for the mafia to keep us with the cleared mafia and we will win thru applying gut instinct to the fewer remaining people that are not cleared.

And if they decide to kill a mason, then we have saved the doc and detective from being hit. Sacrificial lambs if you will. So win-win for us either way. The worst possible situation is the masons don't come out now and the mafia get lucky and kill a mason on night 1. Then the remaining mason declares and we get a counter-claim. We can only wrongly lynch a townie 3 times before mafia wins. So we have to help ourselves the best we can with the resources we have.

Anyway, these are my thoughts. I hope they make sense. If we use a combination of a plan that we all agree to follow (except the mafia) and some discussion concerning our gut instincts, then I think we can pull this off.

Well, as I stated before I think day 2 would be a better time for the Masons to catagorically reveal themselves. However, day 1 would be fine IF they time it right. Its new, but I think the Mason role has three advantages. First, they know who two townies are for sure. Second, they can openly discuss what is said here without fear. (I know last game I wish I could have discussed my suspicion of Wasteland openly with someone before I was tagged. I pegged him as a special role, but I thought he was Mafia!) Third, they can effectively clear themselves AT ANY TIME. That at any time is the key. The Masons should watch the votes closely and reveal themselves when we can get some information from the act. No one has even cast a vote yet, Biscuit. We don't even have enough people supporting your plan yet to ensure it works.

Well when i signed up i figured it would take about a day before it started so i didn't bother checking... oops, now i guess i have to pay attention.

So far the only thing i like is the plan with the two masons coming out. If they are made to be known then that lowers the chance that they get killed by mistake. I'm not completly sure how they really help the town besides having the ability to know who one other townie really is. Their night talking ability doesn't seem to have much effect on the game unless they try to lead the lynching together. It's not like they can really do much besides controlling the lynch and being known townies and therefore trusted. (assuming they come out at all) If they don't come out though and still try to lead the lynch then we have the problem of seeing that as manipulating the votes and therefore possible mafia. Since we don't want them dead by our vote then i do think they should come out and lead our lynching.

The only worry for them that i can foresee is that they'll be killed in the night by the mafia. Once both masons are out we know 2 people we can trust. The mafia might see some advantage to killing one or both in two successive nights, but in doing so they save a random hit on either the doctor or the detective. So with that in mind it would be advantagous for the town if they'd come out even if they risk dieing themselves. This is a team effort here right?

Unfortunately at this point I do believe Sage's plan has become a folly to follow. It's to easy to manipulate by the mafia now unless every role is followed. The detective would have to come out the second day to confirm the target. (this time biscuit so far) Otherwises everyone doubts that the search was performed on that person. That's why Sage's plan never works. Plus the doctor must protect the first target and then the detective. With the added role of the vigilante in this game, it becomes all the more dangerous that one or more element that is crucial to the plan fails and therefore we fail.

In both of the last two games the town went with the plan and it made them lose both times because they focused upon those details and missed other less obvious, more important details.



As a side note. When did i become a powerhouse? I've barely played the game before the fastfood game.