In my last post i said something to the effect that we should just start voting and probably kill someone to get new information since so far nothing much has arisen by itself. I didn''t vote at the time, but i think i will now. In fact i think i''d call on everyone to vote whoever they see as most suspicious right now if only to see what people are thinking, but that also means you should have a good reason to vote for someone.

I personally am going to vote for Fufu because of the way his posts seem to go. I know it might be simple caution and i don''t blame him, but in my opinion he doesn''t seem to keep pressure on any one person. It''s good to look at everyone, but he seems to only do so after most everyone else has already started looking that way. This to me says that he either doesn''t know where to look or that he''s just waiting for someone to give a direction that he can take and profit off of it. I may be completly wrong, but at this time he is my front runner in terms of people i suspect and so i will vote for him since nothing else is happening.

I''m voting for The Minner because...like I said before, if we have to lynch SOMEONE without a clear mafia candidate, it really should be Minner. Leaving him alive until tomorrow will only force us to figure out his alignment without the safety net of a free mislynch.

Well I guess the dice rolled and it''s minner or fufu.
But we need to choose one, or well sit here forever.

I don''t see anything treatening in minner, fufu ... I don''t see town attitude ... that doesn''t make him a mafia ... but he''s not town.

To all my fellow nobles -

This is a difficult issue - and a curious one. Sage, why are you are gueritol advocating a vote without definitive information when you seemed to be criticizing me when I was stating the same thing earlier? Now, this is NOT defensiveness, but instead a desire for clarification as to your change in attitude about when and why to vote.

I am hesitant to vote, still, but cannot imagine going longer without doing so - and have had suspicions about minner''s activity for a while now. I will be voting for him as soon as I finish this post, but will be paying attention to the results AND will not be forgetting how this whole thing went down when I evaluate the results against the posted messages. I believe this vote will say a lot.

I just want everyone to know that I am voting now because I strongly believe that minner is mafia, and was waiting because I did not want my vote to be wasted - and therefore simply make myself a target of the mafia in the messages.

I am truly hoping that I am correct in my decision about minner - we cannot lose a noble to a bad vote.

Jmac

Don''t worry Jmac, I know a lot of people advocated not doing what essentially is a blind vote, but the game was dieing and i know i was losing interest in discussions that went nowhere.

Right now i think we''re facing really, REALLY cautious mafia, which is likely to mean new mafia or really talented mafia. On the other hand, we are a rather cautious town too. Nobody seems to be talking much anymore for fear of saying the wrong things. Since we''re going nowhere as it was, a vote may be the only thing we can get information from at this point.

Let''s hope we get this right or at least find the mafia from this.

Coopels, I agree with you assesment of this game. There just is not enough participation. I am guilty of this as well as I have barely logged in to do my game turns, much less read this thread.

Note I have not removed my vote from Minner. I was considering it until I read Sage''s posts. Not only is this game going to slow as far as people posting, we only have one mistake to make. I think Minner is mafia. So if getting this game moving again means someone has to go, well, sorry Minner. I further think that we have a combination of the mafia you described. A new one in Minner and a talented one allowing him to be the bait to cover his tracks.

Ok, I just sealed the fate of Minner. I''m not happy about it ... since i''m not sure he''s mafia ... but maybe I''m wrong ... and we took one step forward.

A lynch has been made! No more talking at all...at least not until I say.

I will post the story later tonight.

The Minner is dead.

He was a double teamer.

Still no talking! I need to get the night move(s).

Night has passed. Please resume discussion.

Um, wow.

i agree... WOW! Nobody died in the night? Has that ever happened before?

Hmm... well i guess the only thing that comes to mind is that there is a doctor and that he actually saved the right person in the night. I assume that''s what happened because i really can''t think of anything else that could have left everyone alive in the night.

another thought... I have no clue if it''s possible, but can the mafia purposely not kill someone in the night?

The mafia can purposely not kill...but I have trouble thinking of any situation where that would help at all.

And may I just say:

WOO HOO!!!!

I''m soooo happy that we didn''t get bitten in the ass for playing well. I was afraid Minner would turn out to be just a noob, and we''d be screwed. But we did the right thing and ACTUALLY got a good result!

More than anything, I''m gloriously happy to still be alive. I have a lot I want to say with this new information that''s come to light, and I was afraid I wouldn''t get to say it. I even had a dream that the mafia killed me...which if I talked in my sleep, as I often do, probably freaked out my girlfriend.

I''ll try to post some good analysis tomorrow. I encourage everyone else to do the same. Especially you, Coopels! Be prepared to fall under my watchful eye. I could picture you instructing Minner to act like he did.

lol! You should know me a little better than that. If i were mafia i would have betrayed them in the end and finished the voting. I did it to Sanshiro and Corflu before and i certainly would have against Minner this time. It makes sense for any mafia to do that when their partner is on the chopping block or seen as of no use anymore.

I wasn''t sure about the mafia not killing thing, but it doesn''t really make sense not to kill someone. We basically would be given another free mistake lynch if they would do that. That means that it''s more likely there is a doctor in the game and that he did chose pretty good. go doc!

There is both a doctor (Req in disguise) and a detective (The Mogerator) in the game. Do you guys ever bother to read the story thread?

There is one other very unlikely possibilty, that the remaining double-teamer took to damn long getting his turn in so Neb just went forward and didn''t allow a night kill. I say that only because I have an idea of what to do next and do not want to overlook any possibility.

I think both Req in disguise and The Mogerator should come forward. At the same time they can also reveal who they protected and investigated. Why? Because, in the best case, that gives us 4 confirmed Nobles. At that point a win is a lock for the Nobles. (4 confirmed because the person protected last night was the target and therefor a Noble and, unless the investigation found the last double teamer, The Mogerator can reveal a know Noble.)

The worst case possible is that Neb dissallowed a night kill Req in Disguise actually tried to protect that person, which gives us a false positive for a Noble. I think this is extremely unlikely, but want to cover all possibilities.

Another case would be that the person Req in Disguise protected himself or The Mogerator and The Mogerator investigated Req in Disguise. This give us only two known Nobles. Still, figuring out who of the remaining 4 is a double-teamer would be that much easier. If we had The Mogerator reveal himself first but not state who he investigated, only that it was Req in Disguise, we would still really know 2 Nobles. The Mogerator would only have to confirm a Req in Disguise claim if that person ever got 2 votes on them.

And finally the last case. In this case either Req in Disguise protected The Mogerator or The Mogerator investigated Req in Disguise. This would give us 3 know nobles and a win would still be a lock for the Nobles.

Note that in all this I have completely ignored any possibility of false claims. Its simple really. Should we have two people claiming to be a single role, we off em both on successive days and win the game anyway.

Thoughts? Discussion? Basically I think that only in the case where Req in Disguise and The Mogerator crossed purposes does the double-teamer even stand a chance. By having the Mogerator reveal himself first and allowing Req to remain Disguised, the chance even then is ever so slim.

moss,

This is an interesting concept - and seems well-thought-out. I am going to mull it over and attempt to study the possible outcomes and compare your conclusions to my own.

I am also very interested in the input of the other players - whether they be Req in disguise, The Mogerator or the unknown other Noble(s), as either their participation in helping us find the other double-teamer OR by simply defining their roles as Req or Mogerator (COULD) be helpful. I will be trying to weigh the other side of the equation in looking at it as if you were the other double-teamer, and therefore evaluate whether or not this disclosure information would be helpful enough to give you a hand up (Which it may).

Jmac

You are in error, Moss. We do not know for sure which setup we are using. We could be (although i doubt it) 5 townies and two mafia. We could also be 4 townies, 1 doctor, 2 mafia (more likely), or we COULD be, as you suggest, 3 townies, 1 doctor, 1 detective, 2 mafia. That may be wishful thinking.

Therefore, we can not trust any detective claim...it could simply be the mafia rolling the dice that there won''t be a real detective to counterclaim them.

The only reason I would trust a detective claim is if they came out with a GUILTY verdict. In that case, we could lynch the person they say is guilty...and then, if they lied, lynch the "detective" the next day.

I''m going to give some thought to the idea of a doctor claiming on his own...since that guarantees our doctor will die tonight if we don''t get the mafia today. It may be the best move, but I''ll have to look at the possible scenarios.

A doctor claim would result in this:

3 unknown townies
1 known townie
1 doctor
1 mafia

Which we could then lynch wrongly and go into night as:

2 unknown townies
1 known townie
1 doctor
1 mafia

The mafia would kill the doctor, leaving us with:

2 unknown townies
1 known townie
1 doctor
1 mafia

Which leaves us with 1 mafia and two townies to choose from.

Not true. Neb spelled out the roles. He specifically said we have a doctor (Req in Disguise) and a detective (The Mogerator). Just read the story thread.