Moss, yes i did point a finger at Jmac and Sage, and i stated my reasons for that. They were having a long drawn out argument, an di felt suspicious of the two of them. But at no point did i accuse Gueritol of anything. I was merely confused by what he had posted, sage also asked for clarification of the very same post, and asked him to re explain himself. In the process i did point out my views on what i thought he had said. I said that voting on a gut feeling was a bad idea at this point, the risk is too high. Gueritol then explained himself and i apologized for my miss understanding.

please do not mix my words and make them what they arent. I was against "Gut Voting" and ive casted no suspicion in Gueritol''s direction. I have, however, done so to coopels, Jmac, and Sage.

THAT''S more like it!

*removes vote from Coopels*

Now I have somebody to look at: The Minner.

Minner, explain yourself. You say I voted for somebody...but nothing bad there.

You say I was the FIRST person to vote...but nothing bad there, either.

Then you say I''m trying to spur the game along...again, you say there''s nothing bad there, except you try to say I''m attempting to LYNCH already, which is ridiculous.

Then you say to Gueritol that you''re not going to vote anybody...

and then you vote me.

Props to gueritol for taking his vote off. You''ve got my trust for the moment.

Minner, for somebody who stated so many times that what I did wasn''t bad behavior, I don''t understand why you would vote for me?

Hi All,

I just have one observation:

It seems that Gueritol was voting in order to shake the bushes and see who else would follow suit.

Sage might''ve been doing the same thing.

Jmac

Sort of. Somebody else voting Coopels DEFINITELY would have been a great clue, since there wasn''t really any reason for a vote on Coopels other than to get the voting started.

I also wanted to see who would jump on me about it. A lot of people jumped on me, but I wanted to see who would carry it over into votes. Gueritol did, which raised my eyebrow...but I definitely like how he cautiously took it off when Minner added the second.

A second vote, when we have two mafia and four votes to lynch, is moderately dangerous. I would want Minner to have better reasoning to add it.

On the other hand, Minner is the new guy...so this doesn''t tell us as much as it would have if a more experienced player, who knew better, had done this...

Sage you are very suspicious to me, I''m sorry. When I said I wasnt going to vote for anybody I left some words out, I just now realized , thanks for pointing it out. I meant I wasnt just going to vote for anybody but make a solid vote that on somebody that I think is on the mafia side, I probably wouldnt have worded it that way but it would have been to the same effect. Also I really dont know what I''m doing lol I think you''re a suspicous character and I''ve kinda got you pegged on the mafia side as of right now but as everybody so far has done, I shall remove my vote also, apologies to you sage, I figured since Gueritol thought you were on the mafia side just like me then I would act just as he did, I thought it to be the right thing Sage, my apologies go to you. please forgive me!!! Unless you''re on the mafia side

At this point Minner you are just making yourself look suspicious. Inexperience only covers so much. If you think Sage is a double-teamer, vote for him and support your reasons. If you think he is not or have doubts, do not vote for him. Do not follow the crowd. This is not a popularity contest.

Answer questions truthfully and complete. Explain your actions simply and usually before you take them.

Look at Fufu''s response to my ''assignment'' post. I don''t think he was particularly defensive, nor should he be. I don''t think he really read everything I said, but that is ok. People can judge what he said for themselves and concur or not.

* Nods at Jmacattack *

But like Sage said ... 2 votes + 4 guys out there ... too risky ... I don''t have any particular reasons to kick Sage since I don''t know his role ... and he''s townie ... until proven otherwise.

So as a townie ... needs to be protected from erroneous lynching.

We''re in agreement then, gueritol. No roles are defined as of yet.

I cannot take a chance that we''ll be down a Noble because someone ''thinks'' something.

Jmac

There is no excuse for people not to weigh in on what just happened!

I have ''weighed in'' a lot thus far. What has happened that requires my comment? Are we referring to the minner and his flip-flopping or something else. Problem with minner''s flip-flopping is that it comes on the heels of what seems to be an inundation of unclear commentaries.

I have consistantly tried to either be clear initially or to clear up any confusion later on as to the context of my messages here - and there is only 1 reason for that: To make it clear that I have only 1 goal- and that is to expose the Mafia.

So, if you are looking for commentary - please be clear about what you are looking for commentary concerning - otherwise, the statment of, ''There is no excuse for people not to weigh in on what just happened!'' only confuses.

Jmac

A couple of people voted then withdrew thier votes. The Minner looks more suspicious as time passes. Is that what you were looking for Sage?

Do you want someone to get things kick started again Sage?

I really do think we have wrung out as much as we can with the initial moves and need to get some serious voting going. To that end I will act on my suspicions of Minner and put a vote on him. I don''t think his actions are that of a newbie townie. I think they are the actions of a newbie mafia.

Yea, Mwmoss you would think that so go ahead everybody, kill me, but I think mwmoss might just be a suspicous person also. So after I''m dead look at him!

For whoever''s going to ask why my suspicions are cast on mwmoss these reasons are why:

1. He has made very few posts so far in the game.
2. He randomly pops up and votes for somebody.
3. He''s putting big time suspicion on me which in my mind makes me think he''s trying to get all of the players on the towns side to vote for me and get me killed first so that the mafia can kill another player and get a 2 for 1.

Those are my opinions take ''em as you want ''em but I fare the rest of the town the best in this game if I am killed.

ok i haven''t said anything for while so i probably should. At first i didn''t think much of the results of the voting patterns that were displayed quickly, but i''ll share my thoughts as of right now.

Gueritol, to me, doesn''t appear guilty based off the fact that once Minner added a Sage vote he backed off quickly enough and unvoted Sage (in less than an hour). Since there are only 2 mafia guys they could have easily ended the first day withtheir votes or they perhaps couldn''t have depending on who Minner is. The one bad thing about gueritol''s quick response is that the mafia wouldn''t have been able to try killing off Sage and thus didn''t give anything away tot he rest of us. So out of this I can only really see Minner as being suspect since he''s the only other person who acted.

I''m going to try something right now, probably a bad idea, but i think i''m going to name the three most suspicious people to me. The first is Minner considering all the things that have happened around him. The other two are mwmoss and Fufu. To me these are more likely looking back at their posts. Alone they don''t appear that suspicious, but then after reading their posts together they seem alike. They both seem to make posts that are more like supporting posts than anything else. They aren''t willing to get things moving themselves, but instead say things that indicate they are willing to support other''s leads. It''s one thing to follow and another to let people take the lead and use them to get things moving.

For example:

mwmoss: "A couple of people voted then withdrew thier votes. The Minner looks more suspicious as time passes. Is that what you were looking for Sage?

Do you want someone to get things kick started again Sage?

I really do think we have wrung out as much as we can with the initial moves and need to get some serious voting going. To that end I will act on my suspicions of Minner and put a vote on him. I don''t think his actions are that of a newbie townie. I think they are the actions of a newbie mafia."

This to me just looks like he''s ready to support anything people will be willing to do while further implicating Minner. That''s not exactly what a townie would be looking to do since we all should be thinking independatly at each other since nobody knows who is who.

Fufu: "please do not mix my words and make them what they arent. I was against "Gut Voting" and ive casted no suspicion in Gueritol''''s direction. I have, however, done so to coopels, Jmac, and Sage."
(Only part of post due to only wanted at the piece i was looking at. For full post look at top of page 7)

Personally i''m not sure why i''d be on his list of suspects since i don''t think i''ve truly done anything suspicious and besides Sage''s opening vote. To have Sage and Jmac on there i''m guessing it''s solely due to the fact that they were the major people discussing ideas and the most likely targets out there, which doesn''t make sense to me from a town view.

Those things aside the thing i didn''t like was that he''s saying he''s trying to cast suspicion towards people without even stating a reason for doing so. It''s one thing to call someone out and explain with reason and a totally different thing to casually say i''m suspicious of so and so and not back it up with anything.

Well, I don''t think I am really following anyone''s lead. I think I am answering Sage''s questions/statements and taking the initiative on my own. I am tired of Minner''s constant ''please help me I am a newbie'' posts. I placed a vote on him to see what he would say and bingo, got a response that is a classic newbie mafia post.

His first two points are ridiculous. I have made quite a few posts. Other than the weekend I have posted at least every day and usually more. Of the 7 people, I am probably third in total posts, way more than Minner. I haven''t ''randomly'' poped up to vote. I have been participating and trying to move things forward. I stated my reasons for voting for Minner. One vote on a person is no big deal and intended to evoke a reactionl. I think I definitely got one from Minner. It is possible that his response was that of an outraged newbie townie, but I am sick and tired of the newbie act. Its gone to far and his actual actions are what I think are suspicious.

As to Minner''s third point, well, I am not so sure. I stated my suspicions and acted on them. People can decide or not if they are valid. I think they are and have been reinfoced by his reaction. Still, should any more votes get placed on him I will most likely remove mine if only because his newbie status is a concern to me. I really would like to here others voice thier thoughts.

How my actions are those of a follower is beyond me, Coopels. I see someone who I want to get a reaction from and I did. I do not mind you suspecting me. Please ask whatever questions or voice any concerns you may have. I am not willing to support anything people will do and my actions reflect that fact. I clearly could have followed Sage or Geritol in placing votes. I did not. I have followed no ones lead placing a vote on Minner. How are my actions any different than Sage casting a vote to get reactions? If anything, me actions are of greater merit as I have actual reasons to vote for Minner, not just to be fishing.

i am confused as to why poeple who point me out say i am not giving reason for suspecting people. It leads me to ask if you have actually read my posts before you write yours?

Whenever i point my finger at somone i give what i believe to be adequit reason. When i pointed out Sage and coopels togeteher it was because they had given widly different views on the sa e point. Cooples said speed is a bad trhing and Sage said it was a rather good thing. So i pointed it out and clarification was given.

When i pointed my finger towards Jmac and Sage, it was because they were fighting. It seemed like everybody else was trying to avoid saying what i felt needed to be said. So i made suspicion and gave my reasonings. I also said that i was sorry because while i typed i had forgoten things i had wanted to say.

Seeing as those are the only three people i have pointed thus far, i am confused as to why people are saying i have been throwing blame with out reason. Yes, my suspicions were put to rest with clarifications, but i always ghave suficiant information backing what i said.

TO END ALL CONFUSION:

SPEED = PROGRESSION FROM DAY 1 to DAY 2 to DAY 3.

Me and Coopels are both against that going quickly.

Conversation is not speed! We can be talking our ears off and still be moving slowly. Moving slowly does not require there to be no conversation. No conversation means we aren''t moving at all.

Well to be completly honest here... i don''t have any real suspicion of anyone so far. I threw Minner in there because people already suspect him for the voting thing earlier, which would make it seem more real that i suspected certain other people.

The thing i was trying and thought to be a bad idea perhaps was to see the reactions of those i pointed to. Unlike what Fufu believes i did go back and reread all the posts. From that i brought up two people i wanted to hear more from. Two people that haven''t really been made to be defensive at all yet. For me in this game isn''t quantity of posts, it''s more the way people are forced to make posts.

Like i said, perhaps not the greatest idea, but it certainly did bring out some new information.

Coopels ... I tought about the point you said.

If I leave it a little bit longer ... maybe I can catch a fish ... but I was going to bed ... so the risk was big. Therefore chance was lost ...

I would like to hear ideas and points of view ... I been fishing and trying to stir discussions but I think we''re going to need to put the heat up to get this to a playing level ... right now ... mafia and town are all dead.

Ok Mwmoss I dont see how you can figure that you''ve made "way" more posts than I have and I also cannot figure how I''ve constantly made I''m a newbie posts, I am new I cant help how I post and I''m not tryin to be any way, how long have you played mafia mwmoss? You say I made a "newbie" mafia post and I dont think you''ve been playing very long yourself have you? I guess you''re just a pro at this huh? Yes you may have reasons to vote for me but I think they might be reasons such as my 3rd point. Get people to kill me so you can get a 2 for 1 on another person on the town''s side. My suspicions still lie on you mwmoss.

I''m not going to lie I hate when people tell me that I''m a newbie or I''m not good at something, or that I dont have a chance at winning or something to any of those effects. That is why you got the reaction that I gave to you in which you called a "newbie" mafia post.