It''s possible that Jmac is a townie who is still jumpy from the last game, where he had something to be jumpy about.

(1. The Minner has not taken nearly as active a role in this game as I have...why do you keep trying to make it seem like we''re connected at the hip?

Eventually, we may consider "pressure voting" some of the people who participate less, but your timing was awful in suggesting it.

Sage: I''d like everyone to answer these questions...
Jmac: (without waiting for responses) Nobody''s responding! Maybe we should lynch!

However, like I said, you could quite possibly be innocent with residual jumpiness from your time as mafia. That''s the reason I''m going to leave you alone for now. Take a deep breath, calm down, and be ready for when I come back after you. You have given me reason to suspect you, but nothing big enough to merit overlooking everyone else today.

Gueritol, thank you for not seeing my overactivity as being (necessarily) mafia-ish. I do expect you to keep your eye on me, though...to trust me unconditionally just because I appear to be very pro-town would be bad play on your part (in fact, some could argue I''m trying "too hard" to be pro-town )

I would, however, Jmac...LOVE for you to answer the three questions I posed to everyone. Since it looks like your assigned subject is mwmoss, I think you could DEFINITELY help us out in gathering insight into his playstyle.

I have seen moss in action twice...once when I was mafia and he was the detective, and the second time when I was mod and he was mafia. Both times he played very well, so he''s definitely formidable...your more intimate knowledge of him could help us out.

Sage,

I''m with Gueritol on this one - answering your 3 questions would be to fall into your (OVERLY OBVIOUS) manipulation.

That is PRECISELY why I answered the way I did - naming EVERYONE - including myself.

I will sit back and let you be seen as ''king rooster'' here - sage - it doesn''t matter to me if you are - or if someone else steps up - my position has and always will be that of information gathering and dispensing - but as I have repeatedly said, there isn''t a lot to gather OR dispense - so I will sit back and have a lack of mitigation until such time as I DO have information.

Carry on, Sage, but I''m not voicing in on mw simply to satisfy your need for non-applicable information that could very likely confuse this particular round of mafia.

Jmac

Gueritol said he liked my approach. He only mentioned by skill in manipulation as a warning.

You are right in that the three questions I asked aren''t particularly USEFUL at this point...it was more

(1. A method to get everyone talking (like those who haven''t posted much)

(2. A setup for later in the game, when I will do this again. Later, there will be PLENTY for everyone to analyze.

However, now it has served a third purpose...making me wonder why you are withholding what you know about moss''s playstyle as mafia. It may be simple rebellion against me, and if that''s the case, it''s silly. You''ve responded as if you think everyone is attacking you...but that''s just a self-fulfilling prophecy. Please share what you know with us. If I had any previous mafia-buddies in this game I''d share what I know about them.

But, as I promised, I''ll NOW leave you alone to calm down for a while.

Sage,

here is what you are doing:

1) characterizing me as not calm - that is silly.

2) characterizing my reply to your manipulating questions as somehow different than others NOT replying at all - that also is silly.

3) characterizing me as thinking EVERYONE is attacking me when I am only actually answering the little snippets of suspicion that you and gueritol have thrown my way -

in doing 3) you are inadvertantly characterizing others as not attentive to this game in that you don''t think they''ll read it all to follow the flow and see who is trying to lead whom.

Ciao.

Sorry I have not been real active, its because I''m in school for most of the day and extracurricular activities for the ramainder of the day basically.

Jmac you have me and sage pinned on the same team it seems like, which might be true if he is on the town side but I''m very cautious of how you play because you seem pretty suspicious on jumping at sage and things...

ok... now it''s time to start playing this game. I did have a pretty horrible week starting monday so please bear with me on that. I know it looks terrible in this kind of game, but it was either say nothing or basically just quit the game totally. Besides, i''m often known to take breaks from the game only to come back and change everything.

So looking back it seems we have Sage and Jmac tossing verbal pleasantries / veiled accusations at each other seemingly. If this weren''t a game of mafia i''d say that they both are innocent and are looking at each other carefully because nobody else is willing to put their neck out there. Since this is a game of mafia it''s more likely that someone is trying to maniplate the rest of us and not just trying to get people talking. I''m watching this exchange closely for mistakes, but i wont yet say where my thoughts lead me.

I''ve played with Sage before so what i expect from him currently is to shake things up to get everyone confused even if he''s a good guy. People make mistakes when they get confused and that''s how he picks people out.

Jmac, i''m honestly impressed with the amount of effort you''ve been putting in. I haven''t seen you play before so i''m not sure what to expect. I wouldn''t know if your posting style has changed or not, but i''ll formulate my own thoughts later as we continue playing.

I''m not suggesting that either Sage or Jmac are mafia or even if they both are since it''s way to early to have definate opinions on anyone. It''s possible for any scenerio to become true, but as a tree would say, let''s not be hasty.

The only thing so far that has caught a little bit of attention is that gueritol is around and posting, but all the posts do almost nothing but throw the focus anywhere except on him. Not a bad idea considering we all want to continue playing the game, but at some times it almost seems to be intentional in making people look somewhere else. Jsut wondering what you''re thinking gueritol.

To a lesser extent The Minner and mwmoss are posting, which besides myself leaves only Fufu to post anything besides an opening post. Still though, i know we all should be posting more meaningful thoughts so i''m going to step up my activity. Hopefully others will also so the same.

Lastly, killing off someone based solely off inactivety is a horrible idea, but necessary sometimes. For us though, with only the 7 players, it would probably mean one thing... we lose.

Yikes! I hadn''t realized i had wrote so much until after i looked at the post. Sorry about that guys... guess i''m back.

Good posting, Coop.

Before we kill anyone off for inactivity, we could consider having Neb replace them. Sugarleo may be persuaded to jump in...and I know titonator wanted in the last game.

One thing, though, Coop...how am I trying to confuse everyone? Jmac has said that to me, too, but I just don''t see it. In comparison to past games (as both mafia and town) I see my posting as far more collected, goal-oriented, and overall less confusing. Is it my fixation with trying to analyze so little data?

And, if so, do you think that the posts coming from the analyzing aren''t worthwhile? Should we pursue a different method?

Jmac, just to be on the clear and punctual side.

I didn''t said I tought you were mafia, I just said you were trigger happy. Very suspicious of the least of actions.

I for sure know that in other games such attitude was linked to mafia-like, and if your a towns man ... it would be a very bad loss.

So I''m just trying to tone down ... not issuing claims.

Like with Sage ... I know he loves inciting and sometimes he likes confusing ... i''m not saying that''s bad, i''m not saying its'' good ... it''s his style.

I''m not throwing suspicions around, come on ... read well! .

I said exactly the same thing than you said about sage ... he likes stirring the water, that doesn''t make him good, nor bad ... it''s just sage ... being sage.

I said to Jmac ... holster the gun a little ... because if your good, then you don''t want to be confused with bad ... and if your bad ... well might as well place a sign above.

I just don''t want the mistake of last game to happen ... where townies where disrailed into a blood bath ... that killed them all in a 1-2-3.

That''s what I''m thinking.

Consider this ... I don''t lie ... I''m not a mafia.

Soory guys.....i had an approximatly 30 hour long band practice and was unable to post again until now. It seems that while i was gone a few things have happened.

First: Although no body wants to come right out and say it, we now have Two(maybe three because of what im saying right now) Main suspects. One is Sage. He has been making things happen from the begining, He gave us some good duide lines, and a set of questions to answer about another player in the game. He also is in a bit of a feud with Jmac and has been pointing out things about other player(i think). The second is Jmac. From the beggining i could sense a feud brewing between him and sage. The way he was answering and complimenting made me believe that something was up. Since then his posts have gotten increasingly Deffensive, and far less "proper". He has been defending himself far to heavily(in my opinion) from what small suggestions have been thrown his way. The possible third is my self. I would not be the least bit surprised if im seen as a "bad" townsman for pointing out what peoiple have been trying to avoid.

There was more i wanted to say but while typing i have drwan a blank. For that i am sorry and i hope i can say later what i wanted to say now.

As to Sage''s questions. FOr thje time being i will refrain from answering. Cooples has just truley entered the game and i dont yet have enough to "evaluate" him on.

Guys,

Listen, I am sorry that I have been perceived as defensive - it should serve to show you the complexity of playing this game with a lot of activity - namely that you seem more suspicious the more you actually try to respond to the comments or questions of others.

I am a townie. A Noble. I play by the rules. I want to try to expose the Mafia - the double teamers. That''s my ONLY goal here. I am sorry if I have muddied the waters.

As fufu points out - when I was courteous - he thought that suspicious, and when I became defensive, he was suspicious.

Very clear from that example how we can be seen as suspicious for any activity - and so I will quiet down and let you all bring forth your ideas and your own suspicions.

Jmac

Gah...I''m going to do something that would be horrible play in a typical game of mafia, but will be good for this particular setting. I don''t know why it is that so many townies on Waronline act like mafia, but we NEED to fix it.

Of course, it also teaches MAFIA how to fit in better, but it''s worth it, in my opinion, if we can help the town too.

Jmac, you are wrong. It is not your activity that has muddled the waters, but your style of play. Do not change your activity...your levels of activity have been admirable, so much so that I will happily vote for you if you start lurking/pouting.

I will make you an offer, designed solely to help you out of this predicament (since you''re currently the most suspicious player). I will go back and do a Point by Point analysis on your posts, pointing out the instances of your phrasing that have gotten you called "jumpy," "defensive," or "suspicious." I will make suggestions of what you can do better.

If you are town (which I believe you are...I still note the differences between last game and what I see now) this will benefit everyone, including you, since it will help you avoid lynch. If you are mafia, this will help only you. Either way, you should accept my help.

However, if you don''t want to hear from me, I won''t take the effort to write up the post. I''m taking a calculated risk...this could help the mafia, but in the long run, it will help the town...even if it helps FUTURE towns, because we have a bad track record as town. If we can stop townies from acting like mafia...oh, that would be heaven.

So what do you say, Jmac?

Sage,

If you feel this tactic will help the town, then by all means, I am for it. As I said before, I am a townie, therefore my primary goal is to save the town.

Jmac

Good answer.

I''ll post it tomorrow sometime

Sage, even if you''re not trying to confuse people you probably do to some. Perhaps confuse was the wrong word to use... maybe pressure would fit better. Either way i like the tactic because it would possibly cause someone to make a mistake that we could pick up to show that they are mafia.

Don''t worry, gueritol, so far i don''t honestly suspect you much. Just thought i should see what would happen after i pointed the spotlight towards you slightly.

I will appoligize now for not being a bit more active and not being more active until Monday. My brother who is leaving for Afghanistan left here this morning and my fiance''s bridal shower is today. I have skimmed the posts, however, and will be really reading them on Monday. That is also when I will do Sage''s little assignment.

Jmac, even if Sage is a double-attacker, it is well worth doing that. I do not think it confuses matters. It DOES give us a hell of alot more to read, but the more people write, the more we have to try and make a rational choice for who to lynch instead of a gut reaction.

(1. Jmacattack – “Oh sage, please refrain from the snap decisions. I simply read the story thread, made my vote, and THEN created my response - in that order. I would be more than happy to reverse that order for future reference, if that would be more accomodating to everyone.”

My Advice You were DEFINITELY justified in calling me out here, and at first read I didn’t even think that this post was scummy. However, since reading your other posts, I notice that this is the first time you do something—you threaten us with bad town play. “If you guys don’t like this, I’ll do something that’s obviously a worse idea.”

While the feeling is understandable, what this CAN look like to other townies is a mafia member looking for an EXCUSE to not have to pretend to be town. If a mafia can throw up his hands in disgust and say “fine, then I WON’T talk,” that’s an ideal situation for him.

Even in the face of adversity, you HAVE to remain committed to acting like town. Do that, and I think one of your biggest problems will be solved.



(2. Jmacattack – “I am TRYING though - and hoping that some of you will give me something to "get a handle on". Beyond doing that - we may just have to vote ANYONE to remove a single element.”

My Advice – We already know what I said about this. However, it is how you responded to my response that REALLY started sending you tumbling.

(3. Jmacattack – “Perhaps the thing to do is to shut up and let you and The minner be the only two vocals”

My Advice – I already explained why this is bad, but this is another instance of you doing it…and, when I think about it, the major reason why you moved up my list of suspicion so fast. I think we may have found your problem.

(4. Jmacattack – “Thank you for voicing in. I see where this is going - I voice an opinion, and am targeted as trigger happy. You and/or Sage voice an opinion, and you are mutually commendable. Hmmmm.”

This comes across as you going away to pout for a while. You may have not intended for that feeling to come across, but the internet is an inexact medium. I felt a whiny tone from this, something that any parent can tell you is never, ever endearing. :-P



(5. Jmacattack – “I''''m with Gueritol on this one - answering your 3 questions would be to fall into your (OVERLY OBVIOUS) manipulation.”
My advice – You then go on to call me “King Rooster.” :-P This post you escalate what appears to the rest of us to be desperation, or panic. Your tone, your use of capital letters, doesn’t help. But the biggest red flag is that your tactics have changed with this post. Before, you were fending off attacks. Now, you are deflecting attention back towards me, seemingly because I am the one attacking you. This is what mafia-freaks call “OMGUS (Oh my god, you suck! So I’m going after you now!)” and it’s just a symptom of letting your emotions get the better of you and, therefore, acting like mafia.

Again, you may have been completely calm typing…but that’s not how it came out in text.

(6. Jmacattack – “Very clear from that example how we can be seen as suspicious for any activity - and so I will quiet down and let you all bring forth your ideas and your own suspicions.”

My Advice – This is the third instance of your threatening us with poor play. I like the way you play! Keep it up! If you stop with the threats and just try to control your tone a little (try letting a post sit for 15 minutes, then reread it, before you post it) I think we’ll have a lot fewer problems. You can continue to OMGUS me, though, but we both need to try to keep our emotions under control and just watch the facts.

Overall, I think you’re a good guy, not a bad guy, so lets keep it that way.

Sage,

I appreciate your input and what I am guessing will be largely seen as good advice. I will take into consideration each point.

Having also played Mafia before (in person, as party games), I realize that the element of facial expressions and body language are helpful and not available here. I do also know, however, that when a player focuses in on very specific parts of another player''s statement - that often times the real point of the statement is missed. In the case of the statements that you highlighted - I find it important to point out the parts that you are causing to be missed by pointing out only the fact that they sound defensive.

In the first response - I made it quite clear that I felt voting prior to messaging about the vote was not a good order to do things in - and therefore was telling others that I would properly accomodate them by messaging about my vote and then voting - in that order. There is no other connotation of play in that post - and messaging first and voting second is not bad town play.

In the second and very controversial statement that I made - I agree that it is both risky and dangerous to make such a statement. I also know that doing so helped to gain more participation. It is not the most careful way to do so - by far - but it helped. I realize, in retrospect, that if I inadvertantly make my fellow townies feel suspicion towards me that I am being irresponsible to the town - as having townies kill off townies heads the game toward a loss for the town.

In the third statement - you are right - I should not indicate that I am going to quiet down - I should just do it (so long as others actually post) - this is NOT bad for the town - as it allows others to speak and for all of us to see more elements of other players. If you and I only communicate about each other, then no one else is being defined in ANY way - and that too is bad for the town.

The fourth comment of mine was too pouty - I should not have written it as I did. My point was lost. The point I wanted to make is that similar actions invoke different reactions and perspectives depending upon the perspective of the entire game''s players about one another. I can expound on that more later. Either way - my point was lost in it''s pouting tone.

Point 5 - simply put - I too recognized the folley in answering the questions. Nothing more. No aiming at you - simply preventing aiming at mwmoss or myself through it - one game (or 10) of mafia does not dictate playing style of players. My minimal activity with mw would make any comment speculative, and therefore only harmful. Sage, for the record, I wouldn''t like it if anyone posted that questionare. It just doesn''t seem town-like either.

Point 6 - I can''t take my own advice and just quiet down - but the point, once again, was lost. I am hoping that others will see that you must guard yourself carefully in a game of mafia, because even two opposite statements or activities can be stated as suspicious by the same player, and without careful research, the fact that a player is calling out another for contrasting actions would be missed. In this case, the calling out is the most important element to examine - I failed to get that point across.

Finally, Sage - I just want you to understand that I am, in fact, trying to be helpful in these posts. If the elements I have described above can be examined by you and the others, it could, in fact, be helpful for the town. Will you help me in doing so?

Thanks,

Jmac