and to sugar: why are you so sure it''s Neb ?

Well then, given that Bud I would say this.

In this game, if I were acting as Minister of Health, I would have protected either Fufu or Sugarleo. Neb has pointed out that given our play on day one that it is possible that one of those 2 are liches. Good to remember and I think it is possible but not probable. Given that, I would expect the liches to go after one of those two. From there it is almost a 50/50 proposition and the Minister guessed right.

Oh, and the scenario is almost certainly 4. The only thing I am not sure Sage would do is tell us if BBBP is the detective. We know the Minister is certianly undead and sucking blood still.

Obviously I think of Neb, Jmac, and Bud that 2 are liches. It would take some serious convincing for me to think Fufu or Sugar are liches. The question is which 2? Just getting one will help alot. Of the those 3, I will say that Neb and Jmac are the two of whom I am most suspicious.

Jmac has been strangly quiet. Someone new to the game and not sure what to say as lich would do that. (Not sure if Jmac has played before.) His vote on day 1 is not suspicious to me. Sorry Neb, he put it up there so early and before anyone else really started voting much. I want to hear his reasons why, but, frankly, the voting patterns of myself and Bud are way more suspicious. So that silence is what I find suspicious. All I can say is speak up Jmac!

Neb''s actions are what I find suspicious. He was the driving force behind the BBBP vote. He was the driving force on Fufu initially and now on Jmac. Neb does have a history of doing things like this to put pressure on people, so those actions in an of themselves are not what gives me concern. What does give me concern is his more subtle actions. He reminds us that we did poorly on day 1 and, if only by implication, that Fufu or Sugarleo could be a lich. I felt he did jump on the BBBP bandwagon a bit quickly. I am not so sure that he didn''t already realize Jmac was voting for BBBP. That is not normal Neb behavoir. He reads and rereads every post and watched the vote thread like a hawk. It is confusing that Jmac posted a second vote response, but it was early and obvious and I thought it a bit of a weak excuse from Neb that he missed Jmac''s vote.

Anyway, those are my thoughts Bud. I definitely want to hear from Jmac and if Sugar and Fufu could weigh in as well it would be great.

My list of suspects are still the four that voted for our departed brother, BBBP.

I''ll list my suspects starting with who I suspect the most to the least (at the moment, as I have already voted Neb).
1. Neb 2. mw 3. Jmac 4 Bud

I am still convinced that BOTH the liches are within these four.

I know my suspicions are at best theoretical, with very little proof to offer.
The voting provides some clues to my thoughts, Neb changed his vote after BBBP received his first...making it 2...then after Bud''s 3rd vote for BBBP, mw delivered the death blow.

Generally it appears that mw endorses most of what Neb states and commented once saying Neb offered some comments/reasons that suggested I and Fufu ''could'' be possible liches?! I don''t see anything that would suggest that me or Fufu are liches....does this show cooperation with Neb? appears to...

One quote by Neb that deserves examination, following my statement saying that Neb was my primary concern. NEB:"I''m my own primary concern after botching last night up!" This appears to be a slip and almost admission of being a lich.

Further, it seems both mw and Neb are focusing on creating suspicions of Jmac, again, appears to be lich teamwork to me, even though mw ''adds'' Neb to his suspect list...smokescreen, I think.

Good ole'' Neb, making assumptions once again. Thinking that m logic is circular because he doesn''t simply understand it. Accusing me of being a newb at the mafia game when I have, in fact, played it dozens of times at parties. Calling me fake for sarcastically replying about there being 2 liches due to my "wording".

In terms of the timing of my posts, I was "away" for a while tending to business. Hogwash to the rest of your blabbering, Neb.

I am under the impression that you have no other tactic than to attempt to focus attention away from yourself through your thinly satirical posts.

What have you done to define yourself as a vampire?

I see you shift your vote and then when someone follows suit, you pounce on them... Tricky, Neb - but not at all effective, in my book.

Now I have my eyes firmly focused on you...

Jmac

One final thought, (or 3) Neb... Since you have been so prolific in drawing people to vote for someone...

1) While I showed you some courtesy in "answering" your questions, I haven''t got the foggiest of ideas of how you think that I "must" answer your questions to be a vampire. This is circular logic at its most rediculous.

2) You have pointed more fingers in more directions than anybody else in this game. Go read your own posts and you''ll concur (to yourself).

3) I ignorantly followed your guidance on voting out BBBP and look! He''s a brother vampire! Good job, neb. Now, aim fo me, and townies lose, and YOU, the finger-pointer, will likely win.

My question is: Who is "randomly generated" as your fellow lich?

Jmac

Good! You finally posted something! However, rather than actually addressing my points directly, you write some scribble and call my viewpoint hogwash, and fall back to criticizing my posting as "thinly Satirical." Why can''t you just address the points, and then we move on?

As to your second post above, if I recall correctly, you were the first vote on BBBP, weren''t you? Was I leading anyone? Sure, I was wrong, we all make mistakes, but I didn''t see anyone else doing anything to move the game along at all...including you! Quite convenient to sit back and let me make a mistake, and then claim it was all my fault.

Which leads me to another thing you mentioned that doesn''t make any sense...your final post.

1. How is it circular logic? I asked you to answer some questions. You not answering them seems dodgy. If you are a vampire, you have nothing to hide, and your answers will reveal that. Continue to dodge my questions, and I wonder why you are dodging them.
2. I have pointed fingers. I''m a vampire. That means I have no clue as to who the lichs are. The lichs on the other hand know who they need to kill. They can stay focused on one person, and make a push. Kind of like voting for BBBP without stating any reasons.
3. This was the most telling point you could have ever posted...thank you! You ''ignorantly followed'' my ''guidance''...but, wait...two posts ago, you state that you''ve played this game dozens of times at parties! Surely someone that experienced in this game would know you never ''ignorantly'' follow somebody else, wouldn''t they?
4. You didn''t make a fourth point. But your closing is another tell. Sage stated the roles were randomly drawn, yet you put ''randomly generated'' in quotes as if you think Sage purposely would put me as vampire. Again, it seems as if you are trying to declare that I am a lich based on Sage being my friend...and not on anything substantial. Why is that?

So, please, Jmac, keep posting more posts that are inconsistent. Either you are a terrible liar, or a really unhelpful vampire.

Now, on to Sugar...Get over the wording I used! It was not a slip. If you would have read my explanation in an earlier post you would see that.
Also, why are you voting for someone so early??? You do realize that if we get this wrong today, the vampires lose, right? And right now, you''re getting it wrong! Please take your vote off, before some other vampire follows you, and then we''re dead. You make me suspicious by voting so quickly.

Jmac, your inconsistent posts leave me wondering.
Sugar, your early vote leaves me wondering.

How convenient you two are the strongest standing against me...

Neb

(1. The doctor cannot protect himself, because allowing this could theoretically result in an endgame draw.

(2. I will reveal any special role upon its death. BBBP was a mere townie, not a detective or doctor.

(3. I like this kind of posting! Keep it up! Those of you who aren''t talking because you''re not sure what you should say, model yourself off of those who are currently posting good content.

(4. Gonna go update the vote count now.

neb,

Continue to wordsmith away and you will see yourself talked into your own corner.

I addressed all that I am required to, and THIS vampire feels threatened by you - so whether you are a vampire or not, you are a threat to me.

You defined exactly why you sound so suspicious to me: the liches know who they are... why would you bring that up as some point unless you are trying to force a vote yet again.

Do continue to sound the part of the dominant, expert player, Neb, and then "attempt" to use my words against me - that will be humorous.

I am not going to get caught up in whether or not you evaluate my wording one way or another - my point about you being randomly generated "In quotes" is to simply draw attention to the fact that I think you are one of the randomly chosen liches. I don''t think Sage chose you deliberately - that would contradict the "random" portion of the role selection - and it is thorougly illogical for Sage to create a game with clearly stated random-ness and choose the player to the roles at the same time.

Get off of that sad, sagging band-wagon, Neb.

Get out of my space, Neb. If you ARE a vampire, help me find the liches. If you are a lich, then I will assume that you are going to continue to gun for me.

Unless your communication is to either:
A) Indict me directly,
or
B) to Lend some logic about a lich -

It''s pointless to address me directly, Neb.

I will trust you only when your "logic" and "expertise" helps me kill a lich.

Jmac

Hmm, well, maybe I shouldn''t have asked Sugarleo to talk!

Seriously though, please go back and reread my posts closely Sugar. I didn''t completely agree with Neb and once BBBP got staked, I have been much more critical of Neb''s actions/words. In particular I have pointed out repeatedly that I do not think either you or Fufu are liches. That is one place where I certainly disagree with Neb. He has been subtly trying to insinuate that either you or Fufu are a lich. I believe pointing this out does two things. First, it difuses a false accusation and second, it supports my view that Neb is a lich.

Let me repeat that if it is not clear. I think Neb is a lich. What I do not know and have been trying to figure out is if Bud or Jmac is the other lich. There are reasons to suspect both.

And Neb is correct in that we needed Jmac to talk, just because I think he is a lich does not invalidate that belief. We need EVERYONE to talk. Bud and Fufu included. Only by sharing our thoughts and analyzing actions can we determine who is a lich.

Jmac, I''m not wordsmithing anything. I''ve used your responses in everything, and only what you have posted. What vote am I trying to force? If you notice, I have not voted for you. I think I have all the information I need from you.

Now. Mwmoss and sugar. Why are you two voting for me? You do realize that if you two are vampires, you just lost the game for us. As soon as the mafia sees two votes, they can put their two on, and kill me. Then they get a nightkill and it''s over. Again, I ask that you save votes until we have more information.

So now I move on to the next player...mwmoss. (Yes, if you give me enough time, I will pick apart every player left in the game. Then we can add up all the info and decide who to vote on.

Like Jmac said...the lichs want to force a vote so that they can get this day over with, and lessen their chances of being found out. I''ll have more points in my next post for mwmoss...

mwmoss. You''ve played a pretty clean game, and I find it hard to nail you on anything. However, just a few questions...

1. Why the vote for BBBP when you knew you were the last one? Surely you realized how incriminating this looked by casting the last vote. This is the biggest thing that sticks out for me. You know we don''t have a margin for error, yet you go ahead and throw the last vote on BBBP. Why not wait and get more info?
2. First you say, I''m not a lich. Now you say I am after Sugar started to throw your name in the list of lichs. Do you really think I am, or are you just jumping on the bandwagon, as I look like the easiest lynch?
3. How have I subtly insinuated the fufu was a lich? I came out and voted him on day 1 to get a response. That''s not subtle at all. Once he responded, I unvoted. Since then, I''m not sure I''ve even come close to hinting that Fufu is a lich. (But if you guys give me long enough, I''ll get to him.)

Overall, you have been pretty quiet (well, everyone here, except me and whoever I''m looking at have been.), kind of hanging out in the background, not making too many waves. You started out very pro-vampire, but your last posts haven''t been quite consistent.

Neb

Not true Neb. For one, I have posted quit a bit. I stated before and I will state it again. I thought BBBP was a lich. The combination of what was posted and the fact that he went the entire day without getting that 4th vote convinced me he was a lich. THAT is why I believe you and either Jmac or Bud are liches. BBBP went so long without that 4th vote that I suspected that either he was a lich or 2 of the 3 who had already voted were liches. I was wrong about BBBP, but that is a risk you take.

You have subtly insinuated Fufu or Sugarleo are liches by your posts. You constantly reminded us of how we did so poorly on day 1 and that because of that one of the people who did not vote for BBBP might be a lich. At least you did until I pointed this out. In other words, you were suggesting that either Fufu or Sugarleo might be a lich. Again, very subtly. Nothing overt, just planting the seed. And to me, very lich like. Your sudden move to BBBP once you realized Jmac was voting for him was suspicious in hindsight. (BTW, as I stated, I do not believe you just didn''t realize he had already voted for BBBP.) As was Bud jumping on that bandwagon shortly after, again in hindsight.

And neb, I have voted for you now because I think you are a lich! Fufu and either Bud or Jmac would still have to vote for you. Which one does or does not and what they post will help me decide which of the two are the second lich.

You see, I am well aware that barring another good call by the Minister of Health, we HAVE to get the lynch today and tommorrow correct. If not, we lose.

Oh, and I never said you were not a lich. I said I did not believe you were. And I didn''t. You were acting just like you have in the past, until you made a few mistakes. I see those mistakes for what they are. Actually, I find that really cool. You act yourself to cover being a lich. It was almost perfect. Sugar''s unjaded perspective picked up on it. I looked a bit harder, and now I think you are a lich based on sound evidence.

I''m closely reading the comments of both Neb and mw here....and my thoughts are being swayed in who I think the 2nd lich is now.

Perhaps mw''s vote deciding the fate of BBBP WAS only a mistake and not that of a lich moving quickly to cut the vampire''s ranks.

I am steadfast in my opinion that Neb is the head lich but now, am waiting for more comments or indications of the true identity of both Bud and Jmac....mw, you are slipping off my radar at the moment with your strong comments concerning Neb and the casting of your vote.

True enough, that could still be a smokescreen...but I think it would be a dangerous gamble to play IF you were a lich. Casting that vote would make it too easy for Bud, Jmac or Fufu (if they all are vampires) to cast votes and losing your possible lich partner in crime....so IMO, if you were a lich, I don''t think you''d take that risk.

Ah!!! 3 votes! Please someone take a vote off! Do you really want to risk the game on the minister of defense making another save? Please!

First off, I guess I have learned how NOT to post when you are a townie. Apparently, nobody likes to be questioned, so that the truth can be known. mwmoss, I never actually suspected you were a lich. Your answers are good, and provide everyone else information that should basically lead them to the same conclusion.

Secondly, I''ve been doing all the talking. I''ve put the target on myself. Why would a lich do that? Use your common sense! It would be so easy for me to sit back and do nothing, while someone else led everyone around. Either that, why don''t one of you grows some balls and start asking questions?

I''m going to continue my questioning in hopes that someone sees the light and takes a vote off of me.

The only other suspect left on the vote list is Bud Chevy. I will go and analyze his posts shortly. Again, please don''t view my questions as accusatory of everyone. They are simply meant to force a player to answer questions and get some information out there. I see absolutely no other information gathering done by anyone else in this game. You all seem to be content with sitting around and letting me do all the hard talking. Fine. I only hope the minister makes a save tonight so that you can use my information to actually find a lich.

I''m thinking I''ll be lynched before I get to post again, so good luck to the vamps.

Neb

Oops, I was wrong. Jmac never voted for me...so I only have two...which is good indeed.

3 votes? I don''t see that....but I DID see Fufu in the room (online) and he didn''t bother to comment....hmmmmmmmmm.

OH...I was talking while you saw your mistake in the vote tally.

Timeout!

Jmac, can you clean up your voting posts so that it''s all in one post and properly labeled? Your vote for BBBP was Day 1, Vote 1. We are now on Day 2. Thanks.

Game on!

Moss: why on earth would you save fufu or sugar if you were the minister..? Fufu has provided nothing to the game and the mafia love townies who don’t contribute. Therefore he is of no threat to get whacked during the night. Sugar has been active but no real threat to the mafia because he thought it’s Neb and you in that order.. But now you’re conveniently slipping off his radar.

I am completely convinced that Jmac, Neb and Myself are 3 of the vampires. That would leave Sugar, Moss and Fu left out of the pack to choose from. This voting thread to take out Neb is a MISTAKE and we will lose if Jmac and Fu vote for him.