Defending a castle is all very well, just buy loads of archers to fill it up. I'm actually finding the Scorpies a real pain - their size bonus attack means they are perfect for killing a level 1 unit stone dead, so if I leave any gaps, they exploit it. (And his boulder demon is sure to make a gap).

But how to fight them in the open? Now I'm wondering which level 2 / level 3 units to buy for an offensive strategy (I have to drive him away from the castle or his boulder demons will blam the barracks)?

In the open about your only hope is to have squads of cheap fodder surrounding mace and ranged. Lots of ranged.

Well, you have lots of archers. 5 units of archers kill one unit of Scorpies in one turn. So if I attack with 4 units, I kill 4 of your melee units. Then I lose 2 units of scorpies and my attack is over...

Archers, pfffft! Get a real Mog's army of Marksmen!

@Funker: archers typically only kill 1 pop of scorpie per attack (occasionally 2).

I've said before and I'll say again, ballis are much better value than marksmen, because for ranged units, total attack power and range is king.

A balli should do 216-324 damage to a 10 stack scorpie. A couple of archers and a swordsman should finish the job.

I will try something new! In a couple of turns...

Well I was all set to make my moves in the PG game, but Funker's committing suicide in the team game; ( )
So I switched over there to assist him in as much as he appeared in game;

However, that cost me first move in the PG game which still wasn't as bad as it could have been (that is, I still managed to kill some demons).

PS:
That's one feature I hate, that is, having to be more quick on the draw, but admittedly the old way was unfair to folks unable to get online as often as others.

rex

Last Edited : Thursday, 21 June 2012 - 00:32

In a world where 20% or more are out of jobs or retired or for whatever reason free to do whatever they like (can afford) with their time I see no problems with games that craves your attention more than once a day. All the successful games around have realised that a long time ago. Sure there might be a niche to fill with games like this but how to find people who do not play internet games in the first place? Only the freaks are updated on what's going on in this world. "Normal" people are not, as one can easily prove by asking friends who are living a such "normal life"..

Exactly, LOD...
Our old way of generating movement and attack pts was much fairer to all involved....one could have a continous fight throughout 24 hours, where now...if you're first on line after the tick, you can use all your attacks prior to the other guy answering.
The so called 'solution' actually made a devastating hit more likely.

The only way to solve the problem is simultaneous moves. See the game Diplomacy for the best example of simultaneous move combat.
webdiplomacy.net

*"Aevum Obscurum"* uses that simultaneous movement also,
but you don't get instant feedback or something ...
haven't played it in years.
Another bad thing about this *quick draw* method is that you can be wasting valuable time trying to move a unit that's no longer there.

rex

I think both systems (old one, where you got partial HP & MP each tick and the new turn-based) are inherently flawed for fairness and Requiem knew it too. It was driving him nuts trying to figure out some fair movement system.

Simultaneous moves are a nice thought but would be tough as hell to implement, I think.

Some situations are just not winnable no matter what but try to leave yourself in a position that won't allow a totally devastating first hit. Sometimes that can't be done and you'll lose.

I had an opponent recently who took FULL advantage of double moves and devastated me. I was also playing poorly and underestimated him, but getting hit twice is very hard to come back from, especially when it happens more than once in short time. I find that more annoying than just getting wiped out in a "I hit, you hit" war, it just seems wrong, but it is a legal part of the game.

>-)

Back to the original topic, our test duel has swung back in favour of the medieval. I'm not sure this is down to an intrinsic superiority though, I think Funker is a little bit gung-ho with his flyers. sent them in dribs and drabs instead of massing them for a knockout blow and deploying them carefully to avoid being surrounded.

What we have learnt is:
Demonic level 1 troops suck, for everything except rushing to grab resources at the beginning of the game.
Scorpies are pretty effective - range of 10 and size bonus when attacking enables them to kill most level 1 troops 10 stacks in 1 hit. However, left unsupported out in the open they are easily surrounded and killed.
Catapults kick boulder demon butt - range is indeed king. We haven't yet seen a boulder demon hit a catapult.


It's a good game though - I my first impressions are there isn't a huge mis-match. Personally, offered the choice I'd probably still choose medieval. But I'm willing to play a rematch, with me on demonic, after this duel finishes (or before?)

Yes, I agree relevant to duels because as I've already said,
duels are played differently, they're faster;
Although the game is different also, that is, you have to wait for enough money now, that is, not for your unit to incubate.

rex

The availability of gold or pace of play is not an off setting factor...if the player with demonic units 'has' the ability of more gold (like a proving grds game), an equal opportunity is there for another player using medi's to have the same income. As far as pace, don't we all rush to deploy higher level troops as quickly as we can? Duel or camp...clan game...red/blue...whatever...

Two castles on the field or 100 castles...that makes no difference....true, having more turns and castles gives the chance for more development, so it's more likely that higher level units will be seen...both medi AND demonic.

Just as Hambone mentioned, demons are total underdogs on the seige comparison and as stated earlier...ballistas and marks can move and still hit targets spaces away....not true for the winged units....they MUST close to engage....

Medi is King....barbs lack equal ranged....and demons fall short on movement, ranged opposites and certainly, seige.

Play the different classes a number of times and against a number of opponents and it will be clear.

"Two castles on the field or 100 castles...that makes no difference....true, having more turns and castles gives the chance for more development, so it's more likely that higher level units will be seen...both medi AND demonic"-sugarleo


Here's some of the gamenews from PG_271:

"Turn 107 : Sunday, 17 June 2012
There were 112 troops slain in battle.
Trotsky's Castle has been taken over by sugarleo.


Turn 106 : Saturday, 16 June 2012
There were 239 troops slain in battle.
TaurusRex's Tower has been taken over by sugarleo.
Trotsky's Castle has been taken over by sugarleo.
Trotsky's Castle has been taken over by LOD.


Turn 105 : Friday, 15 June 2012
There were 162 troops slain in battle.
Trotsky's Castle has been taken over by sugarleo.
Trotsky's Barracks has been destroyed by LOD!


Turn 104 : Thursday, 14 June 2012
There were 187 troops slain in battle.
TaurusRex's Palisade has been destroyed by sugarleo!
Trotsky's DrawBridge has been destroyed by LOD!


Turn 103 : Wednesday, 13 June 2012
There were 196 troops slain in battle.

Turn 102 : Tuesday, 12 June 2012
There were 168 troops slain in battle.
Trotsky's Castle has been taken over by hitmewithit.


Turn 101 : Monday, 11 June 2012
There were 191 troops slain in battle.

Turn 100 : Sunday, 10 June 2012
There were 315 troops slain in battle.
LOD's DrawBridge has been destroyed by Mog!


Turn 99 : Saturday, 9 June 2012
There were 257 troops slain in battle.
sirsiesta has gone inactive.


Turn 98 : Friday, 8 June 2012
There were 213 troops slain in battle.

Turn 97 : Thursday, 7 June 2012
There were 255 troops slain in battle.
Trotsky's Castle has been taken over by Funker."

Trotsky is no slouch at defending a castle yet I see mention that sugarleo took his castle 3 times
and is Funker using Demonics?
The idea that having the income from 20 castles vs 10 castles is not an advantage is total hypocrisy because it's more advanced units sooner and more of them that can be fielded sooner.

Boulder demons may be a farce, but Rohnk Giants are a pretty good stand in for batterring rams
and as I've seen thusfar the advanced melee and flying units like Wyngerns don't dent very easily.

All we're saying is that in a duel, yes we'll field the best unit we can, but the trick is to get your opponent under siege as quickly as possible ...
Demonics will take too long with not enough assets to develop strong enough in a duel is the way I see it possibly.

Of course I may be wrong also.

rex

Last Edited : Friday, 22 June 2012 - 12:11

The Proving Grounds shouldn't enter into this debate. It is an anomaly at Waronline, with 100 castles available, first come, first served. No other game allows the income or length of time to develop.

Yeah. And the high speeds that demonic can achieve using the summoners special ability give an advantage expanding to grab gold and gold mines. The Scorpies are pretty useful for hopping over the castle walls and killing the units, while they wait for the boulder demons and summoners to arrive.

This means that demonic will often get many Demigods in a proving ground campaign, whereas in most campaign games they would be lucky to get 1 or 2.

Also, the open spaces without much terrain makes ranged units less useful, therefore helping demonic against medieval.

TR, you CAN'T use game news to validate any argument....especially when you're not involved in the referenced news....

You've attempted to use the takeover of Trot's castles by me as an indicator of my demon's dominance...what you don't know is that those three castle were 'given' to me by Trotsky for agreement to quit fighting him and support him defensively against his other attackers!!

The castle that Funker took over was given him, BY ME, after I fought for it and won control prior....Funker isn't playing demonics! He's building a great pallisade memorial of his name across his two castle empire.

And jeez, when did I OR anyone say that having 20 castles vs 10 castles wouldn't provide an advantage?!! Duh!

If you weren't so narrow minded and always rushing to any opportunity to oppose me or my opinions, or unwilling to accept any comment opposing your own, perhaps you'd learn something new from time to time.

You copy and post the game news to 'show' me taking Trotsky's castles three turns in a row,...do you not also notice that LoD and hitme took castles, destroyed barracks ect?? Trot was fighting on multiple fronts...that's why my demons had earlier success, not that they were totally overpowering against a skilled player.
Finally, you don't even bother to notice in the same game news that Trotsky and I haven't been fighting for almost a week.

Sure, game news 'may' provide some insight to what's happening in areas you can't see....but it can also lead one to think something, that isn't actually true.

Edit: @ Hambone's comment about the use of summonners for the movement bonus...yes, the extra movement is there, however...that means deploying multiple summonners to 'use' that benefit...gold and unit slots that could be used for fighting troops (there's an offset).
Additionally, the summonners can't maintain the same pace as the other units when using the feature...so, that means even more summonners have to be created in order for a 'fighting group' to travel and continously use this feature.
I believe any knowledgeable player will target those 'out front' summonners to stop that movement bonus, just as we would target a commandeer for the attack bonus.

Also, as far as deploying DemiGods...I've been in the game for around 60 turns, have well over 20 castles and currently have only 2 DemiGods (one just deployed...and the first only a couple turns ago).
If I spent no gold on anything else, I could get out 2 per turn (that's 52K gold, 600 pts each)....but having a handful of Demi's and not enough other, lower level units would only insure my defeat. 1 Demi, 1 attack....other less costly units...many more attacks...

Last Edited : Saturday, 23 June 2012 - 04:55