well, to introduce myself (haha 1st post :-P) i am a new player just getting started in some campaigns and experimenting with some battles (despite being defeated both times). i was curious about the best way to utilize troops each turn and what major threats to take out first or different strategies to approach situations. first, i am aware of the rock, paper, scissors (rps) combat system, but have yet to really master the use of the system (easier said then done i guess). my main questions is what troops do you hit first with the troops you have? this is mainly important in battles, but can defiantly be applied to campaigns and duels.

basically i want to know what are the most important troops to kill first:

1. do i attack a unit that i can destroy completely (weaker unit population wise) or one that i can hurt and hopefully destroy later (stronger unit, more population)?
2. do i attack higher level troops before lower levels? or vice versus?
3. do i attack troops with better defense before troops with weaker defense? or vice versus?
4. do i attack troops with better attacks before troops with lesser ones? or vice versus?
5. what about range? should i attack ranged units before melee?

these questions may be a bit too much for anyone to answer and they probably are a matter of opinion rather than a proven effective method. these also take into the fact that i have a choice to attack a curtain troop, and for the sake of simplicity, lets just say i have the choice to attack any troop in the battle. lets also say i have the perfect match up with the rps combat system. which ones do i attack first?

Well, it all depends on the situation.

If your opponent has a way more heavily ranged team, you want to focus on killing their Commandeers and thier front line. The Coms so that the enemy ranged do way less damage, and the front line so u can punch thru and massacre the ranged.

If your opponent has about the same amount of ranged as you, it is a good idea to kill some of their ranged with urs so that you have more ranged, and then focus on their mele.

If your opponent has a more heavily mele team than yours, you want to focus on weakening their heavy mele hitters, and the ones that have the biggest RPS advantage over ur team (I.E, you have defencive macemen, kill enemy Paper units and ranged).

When choosing exactly what type of enemy stack to hit with urs... that can be tricky. Generally, use:

HC against other HC and Knights
Knights against other Knights and Mace
Mace against weaker units, and sometimes HC
Weaker units... either tank damage, or try to finish off enemy units.
Ranged units against whatever you need to kill most critically. Also good to pick off units that barely survive, or to weaken enemy units so ur mele take less retal damage. Also good for killing enemy fodder (Spearmen/Archers), and punching a hole to open things up better for ur mele.

The strategy in battles of what you want to kill first and with what is definitely open to interpretation, and learnt best by experience, because there are those rare circumstances where you want to do something you would never do, or something more out-of-the-box. Good luck, and I hope these basic guidelines help

*_* Biodus *_*

Always ask yourself, "If I was my opponent, which troops would I least want to lose?" Then go after those.

Howdy Bensjamin,

Nice to see someone new taking some serious time to consider strategy. I appreciated the facts of Biodus answer to you - and would add a little of my own info if I might:

As you said, you are familiar with the RPS system - it is simplistic and straight-forward. Next, familiarize yourself with the att/def strengths of each different troop type - and pay particular attention to any special abilities/attributes that some of these troops have. (Defense bonuses, retaliation, attack bonuses, etc.) Add these elements to your strategy, and then work your way up as you build troops. My recommendation in a battle is to focus on the troop type that your particular troop type can destroy the most effectively. This isn''t always as straightforward as it might seem, and a good example of that is that Spearmen (Basic rock type troops) do not fair well in even match ups against their natural adversary the Scouts (Basic Scissors type troops). This might seem counter-intuitive, but if you note the Scout''s attack strength of 7 against the Spearmen''s defense strength of 4, you will see the likely mis-match. It takes larger numbers of spear stacks to handle scouts. Given this fact, if I were facing a large army of scouts, I would work hard to develop either scouts to match or at least Pikemen to counter.

The other aspect of strategizing attacks is the need to defend those moves. In WOL most seasoned veterans will eventually back their melee with Ranged troops - and the most common ranged troop you will see in a campaign is the Ballista. While their basic att/def strength is 14/6 - they are rarely rolled out prior to that player gaining the necessary techs to add to those att/def strengths, so don''t assume the basic balli will be coming your way. The best melee troop to handle the attack of a ballista is the Squire, with a 50% ranged defense, however you will see most Ballista are trailing behind big, revved up columns of scouts, Macemen and other Squires. In this situation, I am usually hopeful that I have Ballista to match. Your best open battlefield tactic is to have a balanced mix of Rock, Paper, and Scissors type troops with adequate Ranged troops behind, and then to properly apply the R/P/S tactics and protect against the enemy''s counter-attacks.

All of the above is over-simplified, and only begins to explain attack tactics, but I hope my information is found to be useful or helpful in some small way.

Jmacattack D~S

When you do attack a ranged unit with another ranged unit, a few things to keep in mind:

Use a lower strength unit like an archer to take the retaliation from a higher powered troop like marksmen. Then pile on that unit with the rest of your ranged, with no further retaliation. You may lose 7+ archers in this way but you will save a couple of marksmen and kill an entire stack of your opponent`s troops.

If possible, hit the ranged troop with melee first to absorb retaliation (retal). Then you can shoot it up with your ranged with no further retal.

If you are out of the retal range of the troop you are firing on, say you have a ballista just 1 hex out of range of a marksman of your opponent`s, you recieve no retal. However, you also don`t absorb any retal and any troop firing from within its range will take the retal you avoided.

Commandeers boost the power of attack for any troop that are within 3 hexes of them, so use them near your ranged and then run them back out of harm`s way afterward.

with the combat system in this game. My advice is take out opposing forces that are the main threat to yours.

for instance: say your force is all scouts, if you want your scouts to have free rein, kill all the enemy spearmen first. and soft troops are always good targets, commanders and archers.

if you are short one of the combat types, you may want to kill the ones oppsite to help even things out, with your range units.

Last Edited : Saturday, 27 October 2007 - 19:59

I''ve found that spears just aren''t that big a threat to Scouts...they are slow, cheap, and die fast under missile fire. Go for the high-value units that your troops are most effective against, and set up your barracks upgrades accordingly.

If your opponent is sending out Squires, build Scouts to counter them. If Pikes, build archers and swords. If Mace, go for ballista. And so on.

Ultimately the troops you target would be the ones between where you are and where you need to go.

My only revision to Tub''s comment would be don''t build swordsmen....EVER!

If you need paper, go for squires, they''re not that much more expensive and will be useful throughout the game, unlike swords, which are never worth wasting a production slot on (if you can find a circumstance be my guest ). Better upgrades and more ranged will take out pikes just fine...for their offensive potential they are actually fairly fragile. Small stacks can be cleaned up with ranged and big stacks can be multi-attacked with scout stacks.

My point here, though, is please don''t build swordsmen; I''d recommend not building spears either, but swords are worse in every way imaginable (because your enemy is almost sure to have scouts, for which your swords are as good as lambs for the slaughter and they are just as vulnerable to ranged as spears, and no more effective against them).

I held off a major rock attack with plentiful swords one time, they have their uses. You can produce them like nobody`s business.

Except this is battles. I''d only take swords if I had points left and it was a choice between a spear or a sword. Even then only if you already had some spears or pikes.

In duels and camps though swords aren''t so bad. Because a lot of spear and pike get produced early on. So swords and scouts can run nicely. I do prefer scouts and spears though. And Swords on defensive mode used right can help to hold off mace etc for a bit until you can get squires and ballis to the front line.

He did open it up to more than just battles.

I see what you guys are saying, but my point is (for any situation in which you''d be tempted to use swords) why wouldn''t you use squires? There are some economic reasons, i.e. you need the metal to upgrade or you are desperate, but they really don''t cost that much and are far more useful than swords: the main reason being their ranged shielding. Any good player is likely to have ranged units backing up their rocks, and if all you have to counter with is swords they are going to get chewed up (and good luck if they have even a few scout units).

In desperation, yes, I will concede swords may serve a purpose, but if you have any say in the matter I would steer clear of them: against any good player they are going to be a liability far more often than an asset (if you use them in quantity; a few units aren’t going to be a big deal, but they take up a valuable production slot, which can cost you a turn of production later on).

In battles, I agree with Gaiyamato: one or two units can be effective, but only as a supplement. Spears are generally going to be your mainstay fodder.

To make this discussion somewhat pertinent to the hit list discussion, squires (against a rock army) would be the main threat and thus the one you want to focus fire and eliminate (ranged units aside, as they are almost always a main threat in quantity). However, their shielding makes it more effective for ranged units to engage other targets, leaving your squires safer or forcing the rock army to ‘waste’ ranged attacks and end up doing very little damage. So, unless they have another way to deal with your squires you’ve just secured a big advantage simply through your choice of unit.

"why wouldn''t you use squires?" [instead of swords]

ok:

#1: Swords build much faster than squires and are much cheaper.

#2: Swords require no military techs or upgrades and can be built from turn 1 unlike squires which require a full tech tree of buildings, 1 tech and 1 upgrade.

#3: Swords crush spear and work well against pike which are produced in abundance in most games.

Swords aren''t really that good. But if your on a tight budget and you are trying to get resource production up and are facing a lot of spear, pikes or squires/mace from someone else then they can prove highly useful.

Also lets look at this in purely economic terms, these are based on best case Scenarios in regards to resources. Cost is total cost of the full tech tree to reach that first pop.

Type: Cost: Turns till first pop:
Sword 26 gold 1
Squire 6552 gold 100 gems 1304 metal 2
1900 stone 802 wood

So at the start of any camp or duel Swordsmen are massively better than Squires. But by turn 20 (or less even) though you should have replaced sword production with Squire production (and have produced a unit of squires), else your going to die horridly.

In battles though I agree. Unless you have a few extra points and you don''t want that extra spear there is no point in buying a unit of swords, I never do.

Do not underestimate the humble sword.

Give me all your swordman ... please
Swordman ... well they cost nothing ... and you get what you pay.

yup. lol.

OK, I was in a multi clan camp. I had few resources due to Chunky50 constanting invading with his Pikes and Spears, then Mace. I made swords like a madman, plus archers. I held him off for a long time that way. I couldn`t upgrade to squires because I had no resources to do it with. So, swords can be useful! Just not usually.

Just reading the comments...
Swords and Spears?
NEVER EVER in camps or duels...just so I'm perfectly clear....NEVER...lol...except maybe in the situation Mog described...IF you're losing and just trying to buy time...perhaps...but that's all it'll be...just alittle more time until you're dead.

Just to spite Sugarleo, I'm gunna run this through the BattleCalc later.

1 Militia (Swordy) = 26 gold
1 Squire = 52 gold, 4 metal, 2 wood

So I'll roughly say that cost-wise a Sword is three times cheaper than a Squire (the mere fact that it cost alternate resources puts him up a bit.) The fact that you can produce Swordsmen like crazy with upgraded Barracks and surplus gold in an emergency MUST be taken into account.

Swordsmen are also good for ZoC'ing and, c'mon, they're more useful than Spears who are SUPPOSED to counter Scissors but do nothing of the sort. At least Swords en-mass can coop-up a pike-spear attack, while Spears die to Swords, other Spears, Scouts and ALMOST to danged Commandeers.

PS: Good to be back.

I make spears all through camps and duels off and on.
And look at my history. I've won every camp and had a darn good showing in my duels so far.

Do not underestimate the occasional usefulness of the spear or sword.
And darkguy, you also need to add the cost of the tech tree to GET to making squires as well.

That said I am trying a tactic in a couple of duels where I rushed to making Squires. Loosing badly. My Squires so far are getting over-run by swords and spears. lol.

Gaiyamato....no offense intended, but each of your camps had like 70% inactives and your 3 wins in duels aren't against any noteworthy player.

Perhaps my history will provide some weight to my methods...maybe not...but you won't ever find me wasting my time training spears or swords...if you're gonna train a basic troop go with scouts. I'll out maneuver you with scouts and will defeat any combination of basics you use every time with only scouts.
I'm not trying to debate the difference between swords and squires...just saying the only useful basic troop in my opinion is/are scouts....period.

Well scouts are undeniably the best.
I'm no pro at this game, but people like Bio, Mog, Crimsondawn etc are damn good players. And they use spears and swords no problems.

Scouts are excellent, but swords do have their uses and sometimes are worth producing.
Spears do better against scouts that swords and produce extremely fast and are very cheap.
Almost everyone produces at least a few spears early on and Hack recently used a good wall of swords and spears with archers behind to roll through a decent force.