Nobody's posted anything here in a while, so I think I'll get the ball rolling.

Hmmm... lots of good stuff on the menu tonight. The Meaning of Life looks interesting, but this is the strat forum so I'd better keep it on topic....

This list isn't helping much, so why don't I just brainstorm a few topics and you can comment on them. I'll start you off with our special tonight on HC and battle games; I think you'll enjoy it.

HC are the Antichrist of battle games! They are singlehandedly responsable for the degradation of battlefield tacticts into massive slugfests where if you're not using HC your trying to counter it. Even otherwise fine players shy away from low point games because the diminished role of HC! Players complain that low point games are too based on luck, and yet the units they employ run the gauntlet from A to D- max! You can paint victory with only a few colors, but how much more brilliant is it when you employ the full scope of your palette?

Go- talk amongst yourselves, I'll be back in a little while with the drinks to see how your doing.

Last Edited : Wednesday, 30 July 2003 - 01:50

1) Talking, except for politics, is not atrategy

2) The meaning of life, the Universe and Everything is 42

3) Get yourself macemen. HC don't like macemen, and combined with other tricks the HC dominance is quashed

As I still play the odd battle game, I'm not prepared to give away EVERYTHING on that yet

I hear that; I usually avoid posting too much here because I don't want to jeopardize my games- but this is an issue thats really been bugging me.

And your counter strat is just that CTD- a counter strat for the HC rush you can bet your life is comming. Like I said, if your not using it your trying to counter it- and I'm tired of seeing good players using almost the same strat as the next, rarely playing low point games, and getting as fed up as I am with how monotonous playing that set up can get.

The first drink's for you CTD- go look at my first post in the To post or not to post thread in chit chat and tell me what you think- I know you read the whole thing(God bless you for that Forum Master)

Postmaster GENERAL to you bud

Message from the Waiter-

Please take your drinks into their appropriate forum and post- we can't have any roudy behavior in here- this is a serious thread.

Sort of

Drinks are still available for anyone who posts, and as current there is no ceiling- but if we get anymore roudy outbursts I may have to set one. If you want to go into a drunken rant feel free, but at the end of that post you best have contributed something to the discussion topic.

And one more thing- I don't want this to be another CTD&Baron chit-chat thread. I want YOUR opinions on this issue.

YES.. YOU!!

I think he replied seriously ... the meaning of life and the universe and everything is 42. Go read about it, you'll see is true.

Now maceman do big time pain to HC, well maybe not big time, but if HC attack mace, the mace stack dows better than if mace attacks HC.

Still mace strike you take just over 1 HC, sure you loose 4-5.

Well, Mace is a good answer to HC but….. I find that multiple attacks with varied armies does a good job even against HCs. Mace on their own are too costly/wasteful, but combined with Marks and Falchs they are fantastic. Absorb with Mace, counter with Falchs and Marks, even HCs don’t like that much. Besides, even HCs have a cost and maybe it’s their cost we have to discuss.
One more things is the flexible/manoeuvrable strategy versus the walls & ranged units strategy. Personally I prefer a more dynamic battle and strategy but I’ve come across players who have built triple walls with Ballistas behind them so they can build 150+ units of HC to storm at the end of the game. Mayhaps the cost of HC should double once a certain barrier (quantity) is reached?

Yes, look at the REAL value of HC in 3K games, their cost vs performance leaves much to be desired.
I learn that the hard way

well i can't comment much about HC in battle games, but i don't rate them very highly in campaign games unless you can get them experienced up a tad

i CAN comment on the meaning of life however. the meaning of life, the universe and everything is NOT 42. 42 is the answer to the question on the meaning of life, the universe and everything. the question of which is still to be discovered.

just thought i'd clarify that since it's important to get it right

Yup!, thanks for correcting. In did that is true. And a bunch of mouses came up with that one.

As far as the HC dominating the battlefield ... its easy enough to counter, when you know its coming ... but i dont think you were intending this thread to be about how to counter the HC. It seems to me HC have become "the thing to use" in battles ... and alot of players wont play the novice 1 and novice 2 games because of the cost involved. I see no immediate solution, other than to request a "no master troop" battle beforehand. Im betting alot of players who dont battle as much in the smaller games may be willing to try something to that effect. By the way, thanks for the payback B ... very well done.

Thank you Pimp- Yes, this post is about players relying on HC too much.

There is alot of power in a charge of 60 HC, but few tactical menuvers required. The best I've seen is people using other units to set you up for an HC charge, but again- HC charge! People who use HC rush (that I've seen) only use MABY 3-4 types of units in quantity.

I think its a crutch too often leaned on- people realize the power of an HC rush and the base their strat (and game choice) around making it work. My problem is that for one the strat lacks flair or inspiration (usually) and it gets dull both to play and play against. Also it stifles creativity- people stick with the sure bet of HC in a 5k game and don't really experiment with new units or game types.

If people used maby 1 or 2 HC as part of thier strat then great- but when SO MANY PLAYERS make it it their main strat the game gets redundant. An of course, other players go with the anti-HC strat- but if someone doesn't play the HC heavy army their expecting (God forbid) they are left in a weak position.

Answer me this- throughout histroy have the armies that relied on brute strenghth and powerful units or those that use a variety of units and powerful tactics been more effective? In this game is it wise to base your entire strat around one viable option (HC charge) or to select units that give you many options depending on what the enemy plays? Is it politic to play a strat with an obvious counter strat, or to play one where the only counter strat is superior tactics?

Yes, maby if you shun the use of HC you will have to rely more on tactical prowess then the strength of your troops to get you through the day- but are the battles not that much more rewarding when you can say you outwitted your opponent rather then out-muscled them?

Use the HC rush vs the likes of Mal and Wildcat, see how long you get away with it for

Oh, and the question to the Ultimate answer to the Ultimate Question is, in fact: "What is 6 x 7", if I remember correctly
Read up and see, I can't remember if it was just implied or not

While peeps continue to use mass-HC, I will continue to have an easy tactic to play on them

Drinks for the Day-

gueritol got me started on Religion in the How to Die thread in chit chat, so if you want to agree with me (or set me strait) please comment.

If politics is more your game the Rabbit vs. Turtle thread is now a platform for my radical political ideas- am I crazy or right on?

Take your beverages here or on their own threads- but if you do it here remember the main topic now is HC and these are just refreshments (you've been pretty good with that so far, so if you want to BYOB and talk about something else on the side feel free).


Thats just what I'm saying CTD, against a skilled player the HC rush won't cut it, even if they don't use an anti-HC set up. The only real way to beat them is to play better then them regardless of set up- and since that is the case why go with a tactic with as many underling weaknessess as an HC rush (outlined above).

Please comment on what I'm saying in the last post- do people agree with what I'm saying? Have I persuaded anyone to change their strat or am I full of it? Is there anyone who swares by HC and thinks I have it all wrong?

By the way, Rog Ironfist's veiws come closest to my own about the importance of unit diversity.

Last Edited : Thursday, 31 July 2003 - 19:10

BloodBaron666...all this talk about beverages and drinks made me thirsty ...Cheers everyone... please show mercy as my next moves Scouts, Militia, HCs and all are heading down to the nearest pub ... hic

Last Edited : Friday, 1 August 2003 - 12:23

Remember to keep the main topic in mind when you post- I encourage side trips, but only as long as they don't drowned out the main topic.

I'm still waiting for someone to agree with or shoot down my second to last post.

Bloodbaron can i just have a coke? i dont drink but i promised comment in you thread and bring in some fresh brownies, which i just got out of the oven.
** fans the fumes bloodbarons way ~~~~
Poppin fresh Good hehe almost makes one want to touch my bellybutton ehhh? Pours a big glass of milk to go with the brownies.

Whichever way you look at it BloodBaron, either Whisky or Brownies & Milk go very well with countering a HC charge. First you entice them with Brownies & Milk, then pour some whisky down their throats and finally clobber them with Maceman and a fuming BloodBaron.

I find Demigods and Demon Lords make a great counter to HC.

the puzzling thing about HC's is that they are fast while at the same time they are heavily armoured

clearly that gives them an advantage. therefore, you need to remove the advantage in order to defeat them.

the best way to do that is to slow them down leaving only their armour which can be bought under control fairly quickly with the right troops. i prefer to stop them completely and even use their armour to their disadvantage. yes, that can be done if you are able to get your opponent into a spot where they are relying on their HC troops to defend a particular spot or army (such as a slow moving ballista army). most players seem reluctant to retreat their attacking army (even a defending army).

on an open battlefied you could try to keep them at arms length. ballista in towers do quite well at this. however, because of their (HC) strength in small numbers, the ballista numbers bonus does not work as well. therefore, keep a few comms near your ballista to boost their attack strength to compensate a little or use marks with a little less range, but with no range penalty.

OR - as with all scary things - nuke them from orbit around the planet - or if they get even scarier - nuke them from orbit around an entirely different planet

cheers
street gang