The idea of this system is to base most melee troop types on one of 3 'types' - rock, paper or scissors.

When a 'better' type fights with a 'weaker' type, the weaker type suffers a penalty AND the better type gains a bonus.

It works as follows :-

'Paper' beats 'Rock' (e.g. Swordsmen/Militia beat Spearmen)
'Rock' beats 'Scissors' (e.g. Spearmen beat Scouts)
'Scissors' beats 'Paper' (e.g. Scouts beat Swordsmen/Militia)

Naturally, it is difficult to to remember which unit is which. However, with the 'medieval' class, there are some general 'rules' you cna use to find out which is which without using the manual:

If the unit uses a sword or some form of blade weapon, like Knights, it's usually 'Paper'.
If the unit uses a pole weapon such as a pike or spear, like the aptly-named Pikemen and Spearmen, it's reasonably safe to say it's 'Rock'.
Finally, if it rides a horse/is mounted, like Heavy Cavalry, it'll be a 'Scissors' unit.

Milking the system to the full:

- First, this system is not omnipotent. If you have 10 spearmen, do not expect them to hold off 1,000 Heavy Cavalry :-)

- Second, if your game includes 'Max Damage' (i.e. not a 'skirmish' game, you should bear in mind that damage far in excess of 1,000 will not occur. While the 'Max Damage' rule is only a ratio modifier, if you wish to get the full damage out of the unit, it will have to do less than 1,000 points (plus any bonus for troop level) before you can fully cash in on this little trick.
(Caution - this only applies if you're the one hitting the max damage limit. If the stack you attack is still much bigger than yours, your troops -WILL- die!)

- Third, if you attack, say, scouts with spearmen, remember one thing. If 15 men die on each side, then the spearmen actually fared better - spearmen are cheaper, come in bigger numbers and are worth less in score.

- Fourth, if you do plan to make use of this concept heavily, make sure you know what your opponent will use. It'd be a shame if you saw a spearmen stack go by and built lots of swordsmen/militia, only to find he actually has a large army of scouts and that was his only spearmen stack! :-)

Don't worry if some of this lecture doesn't make sense yet. It will be retained and you can look back at it later when some of the other items (like 'max damage') have been explained further.

Thus ends the first lecture. Editing will be used if information is changed or something missed out - provided the other players don't add it first. Following will be a quote of the maths behind this rule:

"Melee Characters
If both armies are melee Characters (AttackType 1-3), then the following 'rock-paper-scissors' type system outlines which army has the advantage and would win in an evenly size battle.

AttackType 1 beats AttackType 2 (eg. Swordsmen beat Spearmen)
AttackType 2 beats AttackType 3 (eg. Spearmen beat Scouts)
AttackType 3 beats AttackType 1 (eg. Scouts beat Swordsmen)
The winning type does 140% damage, while the losing type does 70% damage. "

(from the Online Manual)

(the next lecture will be on 'Ranged Troops"!)

I've got some questions on battle games. This is bit outside of the lecture, but I think it still applies. Just on a slightly more advanced level.

1. Can retaliation attacks exceed the 1000 points of damage cap, or is it still limited by that?

2. If a stack is listed for a max damage of 10,000, but only does 1000, does it get to keep it's remaining battle points?

3. How does having "excessive" troops in a stack affect battles and damages dealt? For instance, my stack of 500 Whooziwhatsits does 10,000 points of damage whereas your stack of 250 Whatchamacallits does 5000 points of damage. I had heard that the ratio of damage will always stay the same; would this mean that I would deal 1000 points of damage and he would deal 500?

4. What if my opponent above was defending? Would this be likely to use up all of his defense points?

Thanks CTDXXX

logickal

2.Attacking costs all BP,unless you wipe out the opponent,in which case you use at least the min 40% for an attack.

sorry i can't help with the rest.

"If the unit uses a pole weapon such as a pike or spear, like the aptly-named Pikemen and Spearmen, it's reasonably safe to say it's 'Rock'."

the only execption is the Maceman unit, where as it doesn't weild a pole wepon but a bludgoning wepon.

Also don't use this guild if you are using demoincs because they have an extra type, flying, that acts in many ways like on type of a unit. Example the wyners act like a rock type but they are classified under the flying listings.

After messing around with it some, I think I can answer some of my own questions.

1. No, it's still limited by the 1000 point cap.
2. Nope, it's all used, unless you totally destroy the army.
3. I think that the ratio will remain the same. The example in my post should be close to accurate. This, of course, doesn't take into account defense/attack ratings.
4. It seems to be the same as question 2. Unless the army is totally destroyed, all of an armies bp is used on attack/defend.

Dare I say it, max damage will eventually have it's own thread

Perhaps this is just my own little soapbox

But Paper needs to be nerfed.. it is too powerful. seriously who would rather have a Rock over Paper.... nothing beats a rock

Except paper...

Oh wow, was I way wrong on a couple of points.

Retaliation attacks seem to have no limit to the amount of damage they can do.

Your army, Ballista_8, was attacked by Soandso : Ballista_6.
Ballista_6(50,76) = Wounds : 2,061.3, Killed : 68, Exp : 252.8
Ballista_8(42,75) = Wounds : 967.3, Killed : 32, Exp : 537.2.

Also, and this took me very much so by surprise... what in the world is up with this? I thought campaign games were limited to ~1000 points of damage (adjusting for levels)?

Your building, Wall, was attacked by Soandso : Catapults_1.
Wall(46,76), sustained 4,781.7 damage.

Almost 5000 points of damage in one attack? What's the point in using walls, then?

The siege machines are allowed more damage than normal troops which are limited to 250 damage.

20 points possible per level, and buildings have a different max damage rule. Both are in a different lecture - this bit being dedicated to rock-paper-scissors :-)

Paper is soooo outdated,it should be called monitor
*Beats monitor with rock*

hehe..
But the monitor would win that..
You'd have to beat the monitor with scissors?

Could be interesting...
If I were stoned

Could be arranged, Mal, could be arranged. <wink>

I've this pile of rocks here, from someone throwing them at me... ouch, there's another. All right, who's throwing those?

Oh, wait. "If I were stoned" Oohhhh. Sorry, wrong party.

[walks off checking for undercover narcs]

Who is badboybig...erm budbig...er mr.big...mr.bigbud?
*tarim slowly turns into stacy keach slowly turning into a lizard*

No! Come back with my stones!


What other type of stoned were you inferring, grumpalot?
Im very naive in my youth..
There's something else relating to "being stoned" ?


hehehehe

Now, now Mal. Back to the lesson. Rock beats scissors. Scissors beats paper. Papers make stoned. No, wait. I mean paper beats rock.

[goes to window to get fresh air]

Mr. CTD, isn't there a rule against smoking in the classroom? ;-p

Ok, I get it..!

You need papers to smoke a nice J, right?
If you chop up the papers, then that's a major damage to your night of mind alteration!

Hence, scissors beat tally.. err.. Papers

Now, you get a chunk of "rock" (Meth or somethin ) and you want to take it..
If you use papers to smoke it, then you're going to wreck it..
So.. Papers beats rocks

And you need to chop up with scissors..
If someone gets a rock and breaks your scissors, that's gonna piss you off a LOT and harm your night of drug related fun!

Therefore, Rock beats Scissors..

Then, whoever stuffed up your drug utensils get's beaten up and you end up having a night you don't remember


I get it all now!

CTD you damn junkie!

I may be the only newbie to reply!But i'm just saying keep the lectures going i need as much help as possible!!I have left an apple on your desk for you!