Since the first turn is free in campaigns you can attack someone twice in a row. And I don't mean, attack, wait 18 hours and attack again before they retaliate. I mean attack, click end turn, click start turn and attack again.

Two players did this to me in a campaign using Mog's new 10 player map. I'd wandered over to look at their castles, and then on my next turn, WHAM, 2 consecutive attacks. Not that I think they intended to.

So what would happen if you just sat there, luring in an opponent, and then popped up to attack them with consecutive attacks?

If you've fallen behind by say 4 turns, how does that affect resource/troop production? When are the spare turns used up? Would you start turn 1 with a barracks full of troops?

I recently learnt that until you use the first turn your castle sits like a fortress with stone walls, so if there's a chance of an early rush you're quite safe.

Of course it applies mainly to maps where the castles are close together, and you leave you resource piles open to theft, and I'm too much of a gentleman to ever try it.

From all I can tell, missed turns are entirely missed. Nothing happens. No resources generated, no new troops, nothing. This seems to include turns missed mid-campaign. So, Possum-pounce doesn''t seem like too great a tactic, to do intentionally. It really can ruin your day though... Be wary of assaulting idle castles.

You would have to be incredibly lucky to make this one work on purpose. Until you hit start turn for turn 1 and pick your troops to begin producing, you can''t even open the map. So, you would just have to guess which turn someone would be in range of the troops in your castle and start your turn to find out. There is no "non cheating" way to watch and wait for that double attack opportunity. You would have to use an ally or a multi to know the situation for your pounce.

The missed turns at the beginning of the game give no troop production at all. Not sure about gold for the castle...but, you would not have any other mines to produce resources...so none of those either.

I do believe there are ways to ensure double attack potential from my experience in 4 ongoing campaigns under the new rules. I have not tried it, but I have noticed some method to the madness that could probably be exploited by an experienced player. Once I get down to 2 players in my oldest camp, I will likely ask the other player to allow me to try this on purpose...and then I will report it as a bug if it works.
Cheers,
H.

This was exhaustively and exhaustingly debated and talked about while you were away, Hwatta. Does anyone remember the name of the hideous long standing thread about this?

Lol... I should remember the name, but do not >.< Just an FYI Hwatta... unless someone knows certain things about a bug, it is impossible to get a GUARANTEED double-attack in a campaign... unless you exploit in a certain way that I discovered, a bug that TR found... but it is inconsequential thus far because I do not think anyone except me and a couple of the honorable veteran type people I messaged about it knows how to do it. I already tested it and did it successfully... but noone (gueritol included) seemed to find it important enough to do anything about it, so there is nothing you need to test Hwatta.

*_* Biodus *_*

I have been double-attacked three separate times in our Clan campaign Biodus. Seems you told your friend Pro your little secret huh?

Lord Dio D~S

****Note: Edited version to remove connotations of cheating by any particular person who knows about the extra-turn loop-hole.********

What kind of scuzzy, shameful methodology cheating through this loop-hole would be.

We all know we can exploit the turn system, Biodus - it''s no little secret, nor is it difficult to manage, we just try not to purposely utilize bugs to our favor in order to un-fairly gain an advantage over our foes.

I hope that you and/or your clan-mates are not using this system of double-attacking based on the 3/4 turn bug - it's not a mystery as to how it COULD and DOES work, nor is it unclear when someone IS using it (It's obvious).

Biodus, - if we misconstrued your connotation, sorry. I'll go on the record by saying that I have no first-hand proof of who is or is not using the bugged system to their advantage (in other words it has not happened to me in so much that I noticed it).
***End of Edit*****

Jmacattack D~S

Last Edited : Wednesday, 25 April 2007 - 15:07

Let me elaborate on the not caring ... I do care, but then i''m faced with the question: What if I make it public? ... guess what?

yes yes Gueritol... I did not mean it as an insult or saying u weren''t doing ur job or anything, but as you said we do not need to make it public since, I and apparently you think, that very few people even know what the situation is you and I are talking about. And like I said, as far as I know I am the only person who has ever done it. I just never got much of a response about if anyone has been trying to fix it.

Now, for you D~S characters that all of a sudden start slinging mud, I have not told anyone about the bug exploit other than a few like Neb, Mog, and Guer so that we can go about analyzing it and getting it fixed. AND the only situation I ever did it in was in an unranked campaign, and I did not even use it to my advantage to attack someone, I just did the moves to see if it could be done. I also had Gueritol`s permission to test it (Gueritol has some authority in the fixing of bugs, and I was gathering info for him). I am deeply offended and dissappointed that you would come out throwing accusations and insults in my face. I always strive to be the most fair player possible. I do not cheat. As for your being double-attacked Lord, I have no idea how Pro is doing it. He is probably just moving after you on one turn and then moving the next turn before you get on. AND, if YOU played at a consistent time, you could prevent him from being able to do it a second time without him letting you double-attack him.

So, unless you rescind your previous statements, *insert enraged ranting cursing here*. I always strive to play as fairly as possible, so when I whoop creeps like you, I can say my skill owned you and you have no excuse. I repeat that I retract this hostile statement of mine IF you guys apologize for saying the things you did, especially Jmac.

*_* Biodus *_*

P.S. A little support from Gueritol in my defense would be nice... thx in advance.

P.P.S. Thx Neb, I guess I will try to tone it down a notch...

P.P.P.S. Jmac has been forgiven and things cleared up. Lord is as of yet a different story...

Last Edited : Wednesday, 25 April 2007 - 21:06

Sorry, Bio...that type of language has no place in the forums. I''m not a mod, but I would suggest you edit out that last paragraph.

I''m pretty sure plenty of people will vouch for your fair play, including me. Seems Lord Dio doesn''t understand the system if he is getting double attacked twice without returning the favor. And Jmacattack...well, I don''t know much about him, but he does seem to be too new to sling anything.

Neb

Tell me what... Public knowledge of a loop-hole that when not divulged negatively effects the game play for players is probably the best policy.

On the other hand, if the "Master-class", old-timer, pal network is the only segment of players that know about and are therefore able to utilize potentially game-changing loop-holes and bugs, then it seriously detracts from the fairness of the game, and it certainly brings into question the integrity of the player or his rankings.

Surely those who can reason through these issues can also see the detriment that it causes. (or maybe those people really DON''T care. That would be a shame).

Jmacattack D~S

Shut up Bio, if you want to get nasty, we can get nasty…All I said was I was double attacked, not that I didn’t know why, you claimed to know a “bug” that allows you to do it, so seeing as how this is the only way it can happen, I assumed you shared this not a big deal little secret with your friend Pro, who has taken full advantage of it and the fact that I have other things to do in my life right now than catch my turn every 12th hour on the second. I just considered it a cheap tactic, but you and your ilk are free to play as you choose. I will just take note of it….So take your hostile statement and share it with someone who respects you.

Lord Dio D~S

Last Edited : Wednesday, 25 April 2007 - 13:47

One note from Biodus'' above statement - I''m being called a creep. That''s name calling... I am hurt, broken up, and feeling berated...

Not really.

The entire scope of my response was due to the actual "Creeps" that use bugs and loopholes to gain unfair advantages.

I trust the information of my clan-mates enough to know that ''someone'' is using the loophole to their advantage.

Jmacattack D~S

Lynch Biodus ... bug exploiter!!! ... burn him at the stake! ... ... something like that?

Come on guys!.

I did ask him to test it ... he send me an message the size of texas, after 10 minutes I was crossed eyes.

So I ask him, is this a one time deal or is it replicable?. So we agreed that he will try it to see.

I believe his intentions are good for the game, otherwise why approach me?.

Now, that a few people now about the bug, well ... I for one don''t care that I know or not. I can cause harm enough as it is ... don''t need "suplements".

This is the deal, please stop it!!!. This is a game, and we''re all playing like good kids together.

Ty for the support gueritol :-D

Let me explain some stuff...

For one, the circle of older players I have talked about, namely Neb, Mog, and Gueritol have been with WoL for ages and have spent much time and energy trying to improve the game, and would not exploit a bug to their benefit.

For 2, Lord and Jmac, you do not have an understanding of the difference involved between a flaw in the system, and a bug in the system. What Pro is doing is within the current allowance of the system, unless he discovered the bug for himself and is exploiting it (which I doubt. he is a good player and would not resort to exploits for a victory IMHO). The current ability to move later in a turn, and then get caught up to the turn time is a feature to give players flexibility, but you can use this to bamboozle another player if you stalk them and stuff. This is an already recognized flaw in the system that noone is sure how to deal with. However, this system does not allow someone to get a double-attack that cannot be prevented by another player. The bug and exploit for it that I partially discovered and tested allows someone to get guaranteed double attacks, but so few people know how to do it (probably only I am the only one who knows exactly what to do, and maybe Guer) that it does not affect the game, because I do not use it, and none of the people who I have discussed it with would use it. Letting the community know about this exploit publicly would only put it into the hands of people who would abuse it.

So, to summarize that last paragraph, there are TWO ways to get a double attack on someone. One of them is perfectly legal and well-known, and the other is only known by a select honorable few. Also, the first way is easily done on accident if you take ur turns at random times, moving later or earlier randomly. But this also gives people a chance to get double attacks on you.

Lord, I would say pay CLOSE attention to your defend messages. If Pro is using the bug, then ONE of his stacks would be able to hit you TWICE in the same turn, so you might get 2 lines that say something like, "Pro`s swordman5 attacked ur spearman3 [and later on a different line in the same message] Pro`s swordman5 attacked ur archers2". Otherwise he is not using a bug.

And you would respect me if you knew me Lord. Hell, you should show me some respect even though you do not know me. I was, and am still appalled how quickly my good name was attacked, and how you, Lord, continue to be closed minded about my sincere statements. I do not cheat. I am not a dihonorable player. I would never withold information that could benefit the game and the players. I ENJOY WOL GREATLY, I WOULD DO NOTHING WITH INTENT TO HARM IT OR IT`S COMMUNITY.

*_* Biodus *_*

Last Edited : Wednesday, 25 April 2007 - 21:14

***Is this considered a return volley?***

Biodus,

I will take your word of honor on this, and I will also place trust that the "other" bug of double-attacking is being worked on. Thanks to those who are working on it - I agree that if it is a true double-attack loop that it should be closed via code change (and though I am a novice at that I at least understand the difficulty in finding the flaws at times).

We D~S guys sure want to get it, Bio, please don''t make any more of an "US" and "THEM" issue out of this than it already is. (as in, you being the "US" that know, and us being the "THEM" that are trying to understand.)

Thanks for the clarifications, hopefully WHO knows about it is as you stated.

You go a very long way in gaining respect from those who don''t know you very well when you take the time to explain your position in the heat of an issue as you did. Again, thanks for that as well.

Jmacattack D~S

Last Edited : Wednesday, 25 April 2007 - 15:49

Tell me again of what I know and what I do not know Boy.

Again, a flaw is a flaw as you so aptly described it...And yes, I already said it was a cheap tactic, not a bug. I feel better knowing you know of another, an actual bug to cheat the system... whilst engaged with the Dogs..Your honor is still in question with me.You and yours seemed to have achieved the impossible in a few quick turns, and as of yet, I wont credit that to skill....And I''d respect you if you proved worthy of respect. Your "good"name is manure beneath my feet.., Mr. Im cool with the Vets, so Im cool too...I love and enjoy WoL too...I am a member, I have paid for this game...Watch your mouth.

Lord Dio D~S

Last Edited : Thursday, 26 April 2007 - 02:19

whoa... right... anyway. I have no idea what tactics Pro has been using to defeat you. All I know is, I fought back Sarel on my own in a very even fight, I only had an advantage because the fight was next to my castle and my reinforcements would be in the fight immediately. I would have been in trouble since HOSA was there too, but Pro flanked HOSA''s force, and HOSA also completely missed a turn which led to his force being demolished. But if we want to pick up an argument about whether this game was fair or not, let`s continue it in the thread devoted to this match.

I am cool with not the vets in general, but with the ones who help form and change this game and care about it`s progress. Sure, I do not pay for membership, but that is because I am a poor college student with no income and a tight-wad kind of personality. As soon as I get a job, I will probably buy membership of whatever amount I deem reasonable. I help the game by spending time and energy trying to improve it, so I am not freeloading. I respect anyone to a certain degree until they do something that makes them unworthy of respect, and I do not think that I have done anything to warrant you disrespecting me the way you have in your posts, other than becoming flustered at accusations shoved in my face by people who do not appear (from my perspective) to fully understand what I am saying.

Gueritol is the man in charge of dealing with bugs and trying to get them fixed, he reports directly to Requiem. He runs the bugs section of the forums. The bug exploit that I have been talking about has been presented to Requiem. So it is up to Req to fix it. And the support for me from Guer is more than that of someone I am chummy with. Heck, my only contact with Guer is through reporting and discussing bugs, we have never had a casual chat as far as I remember.

I am sorry if I sounded like I was biased against the D~S clan, I only said ''you D~S guys'' because I was addressing Lord and Jmac specifically, and the clan affiliation was just a way to put u two together rather than using each of ur names... probably a stupid move on my part.

Once again, long story sorta short:
-The bug/exploit has been presented to Req, who is hopefully trying to fix it.
-The current turn system is how it is, I encourage people to not make a conscious effort to exploit it`s flaws, as I myself do not. sure, it happens, but if it does I am not trying to do it.
-If you want to keep attacking my integrity Lord, go ahead. you only sound like a hothead from what I have heard so far. Read what I have written, and think about it before you respond, don`t just start typing in the throes of anger. (I have to remind myself not to do this, sometimes I forget. All it does is cause fighting rather than intelligent conversation)
-If you want to talk about the `fairness` of how our clan war proceeds/proceeded, talk about it in the thread for it.

*_* Biodus *_*

Sorry to reignite all the controversy. The game changed tremendously in the 5 months I was not playing. I missed a lot!

If it has already been recognized and reported to Req, that is all I could ask for or hope to accomplish. I will not use the bug and trust that none of the other vets would consider it either, beyond testing and reporting purposes. Now that is unnecessary.
All the best,
H.

Calling someone "Boy" in an insulting manner isn''t right, please retract that statement, Lord Dio, and don''t do it again. Biodus has been polite here and has been trying to help fix the problem, not exploit it.

I can understand your anger if you thought he was using this bug to his advantage but he hasn''t been.

Now let''s get back to killing each other and stop all this fighting!

Biodus'' Old Cranky Friend and PowerVet,
Mog