OK, you asked for it so I went ahead and wrote up the formula for doing average damage.

Now, to begin with, I'll admit that this isn't something you'd want to calculate by hand every time you attack, but if you really wanted to you could always set up an excel spreadsheet with this formula and have it calcualte it. Or you could alternatively just guesstimate. I can get close enough to make decisions just estimating.

I also don't mean for this to be the "end-all" and frankly I'm not 100% sure this is correct, so if you have information to the contrary (especially posts from Req pertaining to any of these values) or repeated tests from the combat simluator, battles, or campaigns, I'd be glad to hear of it (and I'll go ahead and edit this post to make it correct giving proper credit of course).


OK, so here's the formula:

(((maxBD - minBD)/2) * BP% + ((maxBD - minBD)/2) * rpsmodifier + ((maxBD - minBD)/2) * ((att - def)/100) + ((maxBD-minBD/2) * specialmodifier) * distancemodifier

First a few notes:

(1) This is formula is for calculating the average damage done. Since the damage done in particular instances will look more like a bell curve (centered on the average), I find this the most useful.

(2) If you should do over 1000 damage you'll be capped there and the stack your attacking will be capped at the same percentage. Say for example, you really do 2000 damage (by these calculations) and the stack your attacking will do 1000 damage. You'll be capped at 1000 damage, 50% of what you would have done and so would the other guy. He'd only do 500 damage. There is no max damage in skirmish games and there is no cap on what the defender can retaliate.

(3) If the defender has greater "def" than you have "att" then you need to instead divide "(att-def)" by 50 instead of by 100.

(4) Perhaps it's that I just don't attack with my archers etc. as melee, but I can't remember what the range penalty is for attacking at range 1 with ranged.

Now on to explaining this mess:

maxBD (maximum base damage): If you look at your stack's info. It's the larger number in () under "damage."

minBD (mininum base damage): The lower number in () under "damage."

BP%: Battle Points Percentage: if at 100% use "1" in the formula. If at 50% use "0.5" etc.

rpsmodifer: If you're attacking a stack over which you have the rps (rock,paper,scissors) advanatage use (0.33)
If you're attacking a stack over which you have the disadvantage use (-0.33)
If you're attacking a stack over which there is no advanatge either way use (0)

att: The Attack value listed under "Attack" on your stack's info.

def: The Defense value listed under "Defense" on your stack's info.

specialmodifier: This is where you can add "Troop of the Day modifiers" as well as the special bonus of falc's, ballis and pikes. If you have no bonus here just use "0." For falcs, pikes, and troopoftheday you can use "0.25" for average damage done. However, the real value will always be either "0" or "0.50." For ballis you add "0.01" for each 2 pop in the stack your attacking. This is always where you can take into account the "range defense" of squires, ballis, and seige equipment by making the value "-0.50." If you happen to have multiple bonuses of different types, I'm unsure of whether they are additive or multiplicitive at this time.

distance modifier: This allows this forumla to be used for both melee and ranged. Refer to the chart below for values to plug in. Obviously for melee the value will always be "1" and you can skip this section if you wish when calculating with melee as the attacker.

Distance/value
1/1 (??? for ranged)
2/1
3/1
4/0.95
5/0.90
6/0.85
7/0.80
8/0.75
9/0.70
10/0.65
11/0.60
12/0.55

Last Edited : Friday, 11 March 2005 - 13:10

Any questions or comments are welcome. I started this as a reply to PushOver in another thread, but decided it would be better as a new post in the tactics forum.

Card

" (2) If you should do over 1000 damage you'll be capped there and the stack your attacking will be capped at the same percentage. Say for example, you really do 2000 damage (by these calculations) and the stack your attacking will do 1000 damage. You'll be capped at 1000 damage, 50% of what you would have done and so would the other guy. He'd only do 500 damage. There is no max damage in skirmish games and there is no cap on what the defender can retaliate. "


Does that mean if for example,if macemen do for example 20 damage each pop and i have a stack with 100 macemen.
I attack a pikemen of pop which does only 1k damage.
so i`ll basically do about 1k damage to him while he did only 500 damage to him?

The second example was when i have 200 macemen instead attacking the same stack of pikemen.
So,i`ll do the same 1k damage but he only does 250 damage?

So,that kind of shows that in a normal game,if i put a stack of 300 macemen,it`ll be virtually invisible as whatever melee army attacking it will do so few damage that the macemen hardly dies....

Another question was does the same thing happened to range attack?

And does this only applies to my army when i`m attacking or both attacking and defending?

You can refer to my curious and confuse at my other thread-the ratio of stack of army(in the question forum if i`ve not mistaken)

It only applies when attacking. Your first two examples are correct using those numbers.

This would apply to ranged attacking ranged (there's obviously no retaliation if your ranged attacks melee).

Where you say, "So,that kind of shows that in a normal game,if i put a stack of 300 macemen,it`ll be virtually invisible as whatever melee army attacking it will do so few damage that the macemen hardly dies....", is basically correct. There would be no cap on the damage your mace could deal in retaliation. You won't however be able to limit the attackers' damage each time no matter how large your stack is.

Still, big stacks of maceman are quite hard to eliminate (except for with knights...).

Card

"You won't however be able to limit the attackers' damage each time no matter how large your stack is."

ohhh...so when another stack of pikemen with 1k damage attacked that 300 macemen,the pikemen will still deal 1k damage,is that right but the pikemen of course will get a heavy retaliation from the macemen...hmmm...*something came up in my mind...evil grinz*

cardfan_stl

Thank you.

And let's not rule out ranged. Not as good as knights...not by a long shot....but most armies have ranged of some sort and wont' just let you roam the countryside threatening everyone in sight with your 300 mace

A lovely thought, but it won't happen. I already looked for game-breaker tricks like that and I didn't find anything good....not even level 100 stacks

gave it a try. Could you help explain what went on.
32 scouts attacking 32 comms

scouts equal
maxbd=8
minbd=5
bp%=117
rps=0.33
att=24
def=13
spec= 0
distance=0

Comms
Maxbd=2
Minbd=1
bp%=??? Used 1
rps=(-0.33)
att=11
def=5
spec=0
distance=0

Calculations
Scouts= 2.41
Comms= 0.24

From here I multiplied each by their pop of 32 so scouts=77 and comms=7.78
So what does this mean?
Do I do 77 damage? This is a far cry from 1000 or 2000
Actual battle was scouts killed 30 and comms killed 1
Combat simulator scouts kill 23 and comms kill 1
How do I come up with a calculation of killing between 23 and 30?

pushover- didnt really understand your question but i suppose that you are curious why it doesnt deal about 1k-2k damage like what we are discussing?...lolz...
thats because we are talking about other type of army which deals much more damage...for example,a stack of about 50 macemen will deal about 1k damage

CTD- but then a stack of that will take sometime before being brought down to a low pop stack.....so it will definitely help if you already have an established army
and i kinda noticed that in a single resources building map,player tends to have a lot of melee army instead of range(usually only have about 5 stack of range and 15 stack of melee)

level 100 with a lot of pop will certainly scare people off...lolz...

oh and last but not least
cardfan- thanks for the info....really appreciate it

I have these two numbers that were calculated.
Calculations
Scouts= 2.41
Comms= 0.24

The questions are,
1) How do i figure what my hit strength is?
I have this number 2.41 and 32 troops.

How do I figure out how many enemy I will kill?



2) ***************Is this correct?*****************
From here I multiplied each by their pop of 32 so scouts=77 and comms=7.78 (is this correct?)
So what does this mean?
Do I do 77 damage? How is this applied to kills?
***************************************************

Actual battle was scouts killed 30 and comms killed 1
Combat simulator scouts kill 23 and comms kill 1

3) How do I come up with a calculation of killing between 23 and 30?

I think I figured this much out.
A comm is worth 7 points (7 health)
A scout is worth 7.8 points (7.8 health)

so killing 30 comms is 210 damage
how do I use the 2.41 calculation to come up with 210?

Pushover- Not sure if I am correct or not, and I don't know what effect it will have on your final figures, but I don't think there will be a rps figure in your example calculation due to the fact that comms are neutral...neither r, p, or s.

Can someone verify this one way or the other?

Pretty sure that's the case. It also applies to flyers in demon battles

Can I assume a typo on the last max/minBD term? That is, should:

> (maxBD-minBD/2)

instead be the same as the others:

> ((maxBD-minBD)/2)

If so, this should be a simplied version of the formula:

((maxBD - minBD)/2) * (BP% + rpsmodifier + (att - def)/100 + specialmodifier) * distancemodifier

Last Edited : Sunday, 27 March 2005 - 04:44

I say that this game should be redone using a more conventional mathmatics driver. It would be much easier to modify then. Deriatives, and matrixes would solve the complexities of showing this data in a understandable format. Instead of Range being displayed as a random variable, it would be a nice easy to understand matrice. Anyone agree?

The random factor is supposed to allow for luck and skill of the Marksmen, I guess. I don't understand how a matrix would work, can you elucidate?

Mog, take a look at this link. This will give you an idea of the powers of matrixes.

www.stata.com/capabilities/matrixlang.html

funky rubs his head...........

is that site in english???

jesus the kids these days r 2 clever 4 there own good