for the cost of upgrading the stone it isnt worth it. Stone doesnt serve much purpose until you can build stone walls and alot of high level players dont like walls (i do but im only mid level)

This does not work!

In turn 5 you run out of gold and you do not have anough metal to build the the 3rd barricks. And this also still leaves the #2 barricks with out the expert training in turn 4. This upgrade will have to be put off for at least 4 turns (turn 9 to 11)
In turn 6 if you do not build the 3rd barricks (from turn 5) you can build the marketplace but you will not be able to get taxes for another 2 turns. This is still putting off the 3rd barricks and expert training.
You also can not bring out any troops besides the one's you did in turn 2.
Income is 2750 gold 25 gems 130 metal 100 stone 130 wood.
If you did not leave the comms in the castle to wait to build the barricks, you could have sent them out to repair the mine and wood mill and increase output enough to cover the metal need in turn 5 for the barricks but you still do not have enough gold.
Resource piles very in what the give you.
Gold piles gave 1150 1096 1135
metal gave - When at 100% destroy 447 519- when at 36%left 374 and 18% left 362
I don't know if this means that if you destroy a resource pile in the first hit you get more resources. Or the size of the attacking troop yeilds more.
Gems of 301 and two strikes of 126
Stone of 406 and 386
Wood of 448 437 542 and a double hit required of 379
I am playing in 2 beginner games to get my results. I do have to subtract 1000 gold per turn for the extra castle in the beginner games.
I destroyed all 4 towers for 660 gold 66 steel and 396 stone each. I did not destroy all the palisades around the castle, but at 33 gold each it still does not cover the short fall of gold at turn 5.
The small amount of gold from barbarian destruction does not offset the gold shortfall either.
I started with 12000 gold 500 gem 1000 each of stone wood metal.
Lons - marketplace is not till turn 6
I have all the information on a giant excel spreadsheet.
I took into account the cost reduction for getting building materials.

Finished off a gold and metal pile. Just made the 3rd barricks in turn 5. No more resource piles in site. Turn 6 starts in an hour. Still wont be able to get taxes for at least 2 turns but I will make the marketplace.

Still can't bring out any troops, so please don't rush me!

I can't speak for Viva but I did advise in an earlier post that his instructions would have to be followed for the details so for example:

Actually yes ... the stone is less important than the other resources and it would be a waste of gold especially at this time to upgrade it, but I do see that Viva does say in his post that follows to get all the resource buildings and repair them so I have edited this part from my previous comment;

Viva did say that this was for the ten player map which may be configured differently than other maps as far as returns on piles but I don't know if that's true;

and finally it must be understood that the reason it is necessary to build the marketplace is so that enough resources can be sold to raise the necessary gold to buy the "tax reform".

PS:
However, I also am taking on faith that this can be done without first hand knowledge that it can be done to be honest but also I would try to take advantage of the bonus provided by the commandeers to other units where possible.

One last comment is that I would imagine that a very good familiarity with where everything is on the map is also necessary to avoid any wasted movement or "BP's" for this strategy to work and so I don't think that I could get this the first time and I'm not a beginner.

TR

Last Edited : Sunday, 6 March 2005 - 06:59

you HAVE to repair all your mines around your castle, that´s why i said you should move to them with your comms!
i´ll write the rest down later, i´m busy lately

Pushover:
Frankly speaking... That strat there is DO-Able.. Trust me.. It's been done and people is still doing it. In order for it to work, you need to plan your move beforehand, not after you moved it and try to compensate for the move you made earlier... And yes, you could repair all your mines and still make it back to build your building with enough bp to spare if you timed it right! Timing is everything! Not only is the gold and resources important but also the timing when you login to make your move as well...

I have tried it and if my timing is prefect and no one charges in to disturb me, by turn 6 I could have a third barrack as well as a marketplace up and running In fact I manage to get my third barrack at the end of turn 4 in one of my games, couldn't remember which one... But for some apparent reason I couldn't be able to do it again nowadays

Upgrading seemingly useless resources does have a point, but you need to be aware of it - you are making assumptions when you do so.

If you DON'T upgrade, you have cash ready to spend elsewhere, perhaps on more pressing matters.

-BUT-

If you DO upgrade, you are paid with resources that perhaps you can't immediately trade away or use, but WIL be there when you are ready to use them. The assumption is of course, that you actually GET to this point

Would you ever use that much stone? Any decent lasting late war has it's share of towers. I'm no fan of walls (although they do sever small passes well) but towers are almost a must and it wouldn't be the first time I had to buy stone on the market

it depends on what type of game you in
in a map where you got only one resources building of each,you cant really have that much money to deploy your army,let alone build towers...even building tons of walls to block a side of your castle is expensive already.

and in a map where you have 2 resources of each,i dont see why you need that much resources..
because there was once that i have all the resources over 5k to 10k...where i have deploy every single army of mine
that was of course before that master training being introduced

Hey I topped out on VIVA's timeline in one game (up to turn 6 or so) I managed to build a 3rd barracks and get Tax Reform in turn 5 instead of turn 6. I still didnt even FIND my gold mine till turn 8 though and i go bogged down for a while due to illness. but i was happy to get TR a turn early! I guess it can be done even though i didnt TRY to follow these guidlines... I just played.

I DIDNT repair then mines though. Im doing that now. that free'd up my comms to put up a barrack quickly (I think i stated building it on turn 2 or 3). I wish i'd paid more attention. Its a 12 player map and very congested.

The way I did it was this:

Turn 1: tear down 3 towers and the corners off the castle walls that dont allow holes (NW and SE)...Tech Tax, I dont know what i built...Blacksmith?...Deployed comms in 1 Barracks.

Turn 2: Killed some dudes, teched military, built academy and Barracks w/ other comm and the just deoplyed comm walked to other Barr and added the rest of the starting comms.

Turn 3: 2 comms worked on 3rd Barr 3rd com headed that way...killed some dudes, tore out a couple N and S walls for passage...Tech: I dont remember... Built: Maybe the Training guild...

Turn 4: I dont remember... I might have missed turn 4 or something

Turn 5: teched Commerce, finished barracks...built commerce with one of the free comms since it took 1 to finally finish the barracks, Teched Tax Reform (one turn early) yahoooooo!

Turn 6: mumbo jumbo wandered around lost....

Turn 7 got sick and missed 3 turns BLAH! dang it!

but it looks do-able or close to it on a 12 player map with the right moves...

and I didnt even repair any mines.

but i didnt tech the training till later so thats probably saved a turn and some $$

"Turn 8:
You have now or next turn the best income you could reach with one castle. You produce Macemen, Squires, Ballistas imo the best army if one castle belongs to you are macemen, squires and Ballistas. it is possible to have 1 barrack with expert training and 2 with master training if you have one castle with this ressources. 3 Master training barracks are to expensive you won´t be able to deploy all troops, or only if you produce basic troops."
-VivaChe

An important point about repairing and upgrading the goldmine, woodmill, and metal mine from turn one is that building a third barracks and buying expert training in the first two barracks may not be "worth the trip" if you don't have the resources to deploy the troops;
but if all that is mentioned above in "Turn 8" of Viva's advice can be accomplished by another method, I'm willing to agree that it may be as good.

PS:
However, we do have to have our ballista, squires and macemen in production and it may be alright to pass on buying the expert training with the idea that getting the tax reform is more important but the final result is what counts and that is:
*getting MAXIMUM POSSIBLE income AND production of ballista, squires and macemen BY turn 8 from ONE castle and being ABLE to deploy them*.

Please don't overlook the word POSSIBLE above because the barracks and especially the third one are not at maximum production yet but I think they are at the maximum that is possible and deployable for them by turn 8.

TR

In all fairness to those who have viewed this with some skepticism, I will say that I believe that this method is dependent on as Americans say,
"having it down to a science".
Again I would personally have to keep a record of exactly where everything is located and be extremely careful not to waste moves and also be sure to take advantage of commandeer bonuses wherever possible.

Also I think this is very dependent on as mentioned avoiding early conflict through diplomacy to accomplish it without interruption. Very capable players have agreed that this method is possible and that it is basicly the way to proceed especially with technology research.
However, for the sake of new folks who may be finding this method very difficult to follow, I recommend to try to just use it as a basic guide for acquiring the technology that most experienced players agree is most essential to acquire as soon as possible and not to worry so much about getting it exactly on schedule.

As mentioned, it very well may be possible to gain the "tax reform" earlier which is certainly important and I personally still can't bring myself to buy the upgrades which certainly also has advantages if one does buy the upgrades;
So again as mentioned I would try to just use this method as a general guideline of how some very experienced players first establish a solid economical basis for their strategy but I would basically
"just play" and try to have fun.

TR

Bump,I just thought it need that

hmm ive been getting building matrials turn 2 befor millitary and before i build my blacksmith saves me a few $$ when it comes time to build 3rd barraks and the rest of my buildings

also on reparing any castle walls i end up needing to sell

if this is a bad strat would somone let me know
my campain exp is prity limited as i wind up going inactive so offten

Not worth it, I'm yet to miss stone in a game.

ya but the gold pays for itself in the first buildings

just you miss out on an early tec up

I tend to get building materials early as well crest. Not for the gold but for the resources I can save. It comes down to playing style and getting building materials early works for my style.

I'd like to point out to St.Crispin that tearing down the "ID hex" of a castle (the one in the NW corner) and then building there again leads to a bug that wipes out your income. I suggest not doing that!



www.mpogd.com
No vote is lame-o

Um Mog the ID hex is the northeast corner.

Now I know why your at my castle in clan 1, your lost Don't worry I'll help your men find there way.