Big question...How dangerous are flying demons supposed to be?
Are flying demons allowed to fly into buildings belonging to another player? I have never seen this before, except for one turn where Sugar was taking over one of my outposts and I flew into it to attack his comm doing the takeover. I killed his comm and then refreshed to see my scorpie standing in an outpost belonging to him, with his comm's bloodspot now next to it. I thought it was a glitch at the time.
Today, I was playing with the view shifted to see all the units and moved next to a comm belonging to Mog. I killed the comm, refreshed and found I was standing in a drawbridge that had always belonged to Mog...not a glitch due to simultaneous processing. Can demons do this (obviously yes), but are they allowed to do this? I have had issues landing between other players units and issues landing on certain bloodspots when flying, but I don't know how flight is supposed to deal with occupiable buildings???
Any ideas or citations from the rules would be appreciated.
Thanks,
H.
P.S. If they can do this legally, it would go a long way to evening up that "no ranged ability" thing. But, that is a lot of power.

I would say it is illegal and a glitch to land in other peoples buildings. But that's just my opinion

I hate being an example.

I don't know what the answer to this question may be. I assumed that flying troops couldn't land in other's buildings. However, at this point, if you can do it, it is probably ok, and can't really be stopped anyhow.

The bug that allows unlimited movement at random times is a far worse one. This flyers bug may help you sometimes, other times not. I wonder how reliable it is? Why don't you use this Proving Grounds to gather more evidence, just go over to Sugarleo's stuff to test it all out, because my stuff is mine. You know how that is, why don't you and he fight.

I went and saw what you were talking about, that is very distressing. I had a comm completely surrounded by walls, a Demigod landed on one of my drawbridges and killed my comm, leaving my goldmine vulnerable to takeover. Now that my ox has been gored I'll email Req!

I'd also have to say, it is far more than a way to "make up for" a lack of ranged, after all, flying gets rid of ZOC, that is already a pretty large advantage, coupled with the summoners ability to scoot the troops so much faster... too many advantages. If there is no way to stop a troop whatsoever, allowing it to fly over troops, walls and land on protected spaces, well...... no troop is safe then.

Last Edited : Sunday, 3 February 2013 - 15:27

Thanks for checking Mog. I don't want to abuse a bug, but I also don't want to waste the opportunities to use this type of attack if it is legal. I have not used demons enough to know for sure...as I stated in the General forum, this is the first time I have ever used demons in a campaign. If Req says it is illegal to move into unoccupied buildings belonging to others and that is a bug that needs to be fixed, can you also ask him about why flying demons are effected by ZOC sometimes (landing between enemy troops) and why they can move onto blood spots if they have a path, but can't fly onto blood spots if they are behind ZOC. I have been learning as I play and have taken the approach so far that whatever they do or can't do is the way it is supposed to be.
This is of minor interest to you Mog as compared to the Fortress of Funker. If I can simply fly my demigods into his empty towers, it will save me many innocent boulder demons and cost him all of those pesky ballista pretty quickly. If I can do this legally, I will have to give him a fair warning so he can tear down all the useless towers and reclaim some of his gold.

I'd really say it would be about the end for Medieval and Barbarian troops in the Proving Grounds if it is possible to replicate constantly. Certainly there would be no shield for ranged but flesh itself.

We'll see if my plangent cry unto the lord Req is answered. One must have faith. I don't actually believe that, but it sounds good.

I am waiting patiently for the lordly response. And, yes, I can replicate it. I was able to move my demigods into the towers next to Funkers ballista(s). A beautiful sight!!! But, then moved them back out without crushing them to piles of broken wood, bloody goo, and bone. Very depressing. (Please, please say I can have some ballista for breakfast! Please!)
Regards,
H.

I'm pretty certain it is a bug. No troops are supposed to be able to enter an enemy building.

Maybe Req will answer my email sometime...

It was possible in the last game that I used demons....I only used it a couple of times and stopped as I expected someone to declare it a bug/cheating....however, it's my opinion that this is a possible move for the flyers and not just a bug.

Thanks sugar!
That's the same thinking I have. I just want to be sure one way or the other. I don't want to cheat, but I also would hate to sit here eating balli ahots if I don't need to. I would give Funker fair warning before using it so he has the option to retreat or move up some fodder troops to surround his valuable ballis. It would be a really different game and require some new strategic considerations.
Cheers,
H.

It would in fact in the end result in that no one would use anything but demons.

All demon proving grounds? Would be crazy

I don't know about that. Ultima's use of large troop formations with fodder surrounding his ballis was pretty effective. Also, macemen are a huge problem for the demons...just ask Mog. With no range capability (except boulder demons...joke), and no knight-type unit, the demons must take retal for every hit they make. Attrition is on the side of the medi troops. Medi forces can protect their high value troops by surrounding them with fodder or buildings (just as they can against other medi), but the demons have no standoff capability. Flying over ZOC doesn't seem to work in all cases and any troops they attack inside buildings still get the defense bonus. Allowing the demons to fly into unoccupied buildings would provide some balance...but, maybe too much early in the game.
As it is, both Funker's and (previously) Ultima's forces were basically untouchable by any demon force. With the building move option, it becomes possible to attack them.

I guess it would call for new Medi tactics, and it IS the proving grounds and... I can't really stop it anyhow. Duels will be affected too, right?

So, what can you do now? U can land on my towers? That is not nice.

I can't remember that I could do that in the duel when I used the demons.

In that case, I wouldn't have any chance versus your flying demons... I only have this few ballis and 4 castles. So I can't build any cannonfodder... only walls and walls and walls...

Funker,
I understand what you are saying. Just keep playing as normal for now. I won't do anything until I hear a verdict from Req that it is OK...even though it is a proving grounds game and doesn't really hurt anything either way as Mog said. It would be a big change in the game. I have looked at every rule I can find and can't find any information on the flying capability that points either way. It also doesn't describe clearly the effects of ZOC that I see on the flying demons or the reason some can walk onto bloodspots, but not fly onto them. My guess is there are many small programming glitches with the flying classes.
As I said, if the word came back tonight that it was OK, I would give you at least 6-10 turns for you to prepare before I attack with the "new" capability. That would give you time to tear down many of the "useless" towers for gold and build walls or fodder according to whatever defense stategy you would choose.
My guess is that Req will come back and say flying into unoccupied enemy buildings is not allowed...but, I just don't know for sure.
Regards,
H.

So, can you fly on my towers and drawbridges or only on "unknown" towers, drawbriges and so on?

Anyone can move into unknown towers, but not unknown drawbridges...so, I have no problem doing that. I "can" move into your unoccupied towers and any unoccupied drawbridges (neaning, the game will let me move there), but "won't" do it for now until I know it is not a bug. I will give you notice before I use this move if it is not a bug according to Req.

Can they also move onto barracks?

I will check.

Here's what Req sent me (not sure if it actually clears this up, I'll have to ponder it when I get home later...

Hey Mog!!

Gee, it’s been a while. Hard to remember the rules now.
I think that the plan back then was to make it so that flying was just a faster method of movement.
So if you could enter an empty building with normal troops, then you should also be able to with flying troops (since they just get there faster).
However, if you cant enter the empty building with normal troops, I would say that you shouldn’t be able to with flying troops either.
I just cant remember what the rules for normal troops are.

I seem to remember wanting to make it so towers and such can be entered by anyone if they are empty. Just not sure if I got round to it.