Sugarleo,
I wish you wouldn't go off on a welfare queen rant, it is such an old fashioned and bigoted way to talk. People need help. For instance, how many people got screwed out of their home and pension by Enron and other corporations? If you worked all your life and watched a CEO retire with hundreds of millions of unearned dollars while your pension was gone and the bank foreclosed on your house, would you feel it was wrong to get health care for your family or should they just "go out and get a job"?

I think health care should be considered a right in a civilized nation. That is my political opinion. (By the way, I didn't think you were attacking me at all, and I wasn't personally attacking you, I just think insurance companies are parasitical in nature for health care issues) Since the wealthy have engineered a situation where they pay hardly any taxes and are gathering all the money to themselves, the system doesn't work, and millions upon millions (including children) have NO health insurance and have a difficult time getting health care, especially anything beyond simple maintenance, like expensive operations and so on. Just saying it isn't so and saying I have been brainwashed by the Democrats is crap. It is a tired form of argument and should be below you.

Get outside your industry's hype and talk to actual people who don't have your money and you'll see that most are hard working, need help with health care and don't expect to be given free help. In a proper society they would get help when they need it whatever their situation or social standing.

In a country that pays hundreds of billions of dollars every year for unneccessary military spending, this is insanity. We as a people deserve better than this and allowing the wealthy to shame us into not fighting for justice is worthless. I have no objection to people getting rich as long as poor people also get richer, but that is NOT the way it works. The rich write the laws nowadays and will not allow any social betterment that might take a small percentage of their wealth away to help others who really need it.

I don't think there should be any profit in health care, run it all as a non-profit company, pay adequate salaries to professionals and get rid of the middleman (the insurance companies). Same goes for arms sales, no profits or people find ways to make business for themselves by fomenting foreign wars to shoot off all that expensive hardware. Nothing wrong with profit, but not off other people's misery, thanks.

In a taxfunded, government run, healthcare system the aim is to get as much and good care for each dollar, as possible.
In a private operation the object is to make the owners earn as much as possible, providing as poor care as they can get away with and still keep their customers.
Taxfunded will always be cheaper and better.

Last Edited : Wednesday, 22 August 2012 - 07:23

That must be why so many Americans go to Canada for treatment and no Canadians come to the US....Oh, wait, that's backwards. Hmmmmmm????

Where did you get that information ?

The US citizens have the highest costs for healthcare, www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934556.html

but don't get value for their money.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Canadian life expectancy is 3 years longer than in the U.S.

If we are going to base it on life expectancy, I guess Iceland has the best healthcare for males and Japan has the best healthcare for females. Strange?!? I hear of many heads of state flying into Iceland all the time because their healthcare system is so superior! No, wait, I'm confused again...that would be the US!!!

The fact that we have an abundance of lazy, obese people who refuse to do any work or exercise is not a reflection on our healthcare system. Also, how many of those long-lived Canadians have been forced to seek treatment for dire medical conditions in the US because the wait list in their own country would have been fatal? Glad we are able to support the failure of their government healthcare system just across the border. What will they do when ours is worse than theirs? Luckily, our life expectancy will probably plummet faster than theirs will as our healthcare system collapses, and thus seem to reinforce your point. I won't buy it, but many probably will. We will have irretrievably lost the best healthcare available to anyone on earth.
Cheers,
H.

It doesn't matter how good the healthcare is if you can't afford to use it.

@ Hwatta - Where did you get your facts ?

@Trotsky - if you are asking about the Iceland, Japan thing it is from wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

If you are asking about the heads of state and others using US healthcare in dire circumstances, I read/watch news reports, but hard data can be found with a quick internet search: "Some Data. In its 2008 report on medical tourism, Deloitte suggested that in 2008 there would be more than 400,000 non-U.S. residents that would receive care in the United States and spend almost $5 billion for health services. International patients currently make up almost 3.5% of all inpatient procedures performed in the U.S. By 2011, Deloitte suggested that those numbers could rise to as much as 800,000 patients annually (Deloitte, 2009)." From: asbbs.org/files/2011/ASBBS2011v1/PDF/G/GiacaloneJ.pdf

The fact that we have lazy, obese people in the US is beyond dispute, but you can find data at: www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html
Aug 13, 2012 – More than one-third of U.S. adults (35.7%) are obese.

The fatal Canadian issue is from family experience. My wifes aunt would have had to wait 6 months for treatment in Canada, but got into treatment the following week in the US. It saved her life. From other Canadian friends I am told this is typical. I can find more stories of a non-personal nature if you would like.

As for the best healthcare on earth part...that is a matter of opinion. The problem is that LOD and others really like the systems in their countries...for now (I'm sure many Greeks liked theirs 3 years ago too). I like the current US system. Nobody is threatening to make LOD move to a market-based medical system, but one is available here if he wanted to use it. Socialist factions are actively trying to destroy the system I want...against the will of the majority of American people. And, when ours falls apart, I don't believe I will be able to get treatment in Sweden!

Let me know if you have any more specific questions.
Cheers,
H.

I'm sure you are welcome to sweden, as long as you pay. We take on quite a few foreigners in our hospitals as well as do all developed countires. Ofcourse the US with well over 30 times as many inhabitants would take on more than we.

www.lj.se/index.jsf?nodeId=31671&childId=6825&nodeType=12

A list over rules for diffrent countries that seek care here, $1 is around 6.5 kr.

Turns out quite a few americans go abroad for surgery too. 6 mil each year apperantly.
news.health.com/2009/04/08/traveling-treatment/

And here is why.
www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=27087

Last Edited : Thursday, 23 August 2012 - 07:36

I chose representational Democracy as my government choice in the poll. While I don't think it is a perfect form of government, I don't think one of those exists, even as a vision. There are too many reasons that humans find to confront one another over, many of which are existential crises. The best we can hope for is that our system of government won't strip us of liberty, take away rights past generations have fought and died for, as has been happening for decades now. We aren't the same country that were the victors over worldwide fascism in the 40's. Our military/industrial/government complex has spelled our current doom due to its complete thralldom to cash and property over human values like compassion and mercy. Money talks and everything else walks. Good system. (I'm using a sarcastic tone there)

(We just lost our 2,000th soldier in Afghanistan. If you can tell me why we are there except at the bidding of multinational corporations or what good we are doing for the people there, I'd sure like to know. If we leave, the Taliban will immediately come back into power since that is what half the people there actually want. Let them have their repressive nutjob regime, we can be elsewhere, not killing little kids in Pakistan with drones. If we actually didn't like nutjob regimes we'd have gone into North Korea when GW said they were part of the axis of evil. Oh wait, they have a nuke and no oil! Don't invade them, go after Afghanistan instead, they aren't very well armed, after all, and the big companies want to take their resources.

I voted for Barrack Obama but this is his biggest failing, among several, not getting us out of that hellhole of a country where we had no business being in the first place. We could have gotten Osama the same way we actually did, with a small team sent over national boundaries in the middle of the night. A commando raid. I'm not real happy about that either, but it sure beats bankrupting our country like Osama planned for us, and GW Bush went right along with it since his cronies got rich from it. Idiots.)

There, I have vented my spleen for today. Thanks for your kind consideration.
Mog

@ Hiawatta - TY , I was interested about the Canadian issue. I read an online newspaper from Quebec in the area of Derby Line VT. Can't think of the Canadian town's name right now. Get mixed messages re the efficiency ( some ARE pretty bad ). I don't know how much of it has to do with urban vs. rural. Did you get any feedback on that ?

:O Loddy you know your opening up another great debate!!! You should just goggles each word and go with those definitions.

@Trotsky - she lives in Ottawa which is a fairly large city. She got her diagnosis, was given the equivalent of a referral for specialist care, and was put on a 6 month waiting list. I don't know how much easier or harder it is from a rural area...I would think it is just dependent on the availability of specialists and hospital beds at specialized facilities.
Cheers,
H.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

www.cnn.com/2012/08/23/us/texas-judge-warning/index.html

Last Edited : Friday, 24 August 2012 - 08:29

That's the funniest thing I've heard since long. UN troops going into the US hahaha. Right....Looney bin next?

Doesn't even surprise me a little bit. A lot of really pathetic people are voted into office by fools.

Hey! New poll up! It might make a better topic for conversation as well. Favorite cartoon character!