In all of the games I've played I can't remember even ONE kill that they've inflicted......

All vets has known that since long

Last Edited : Wednesday, 9 July 2008 - 19:17

well I've gone all arb's in a few games just for fun and won each of them, don't underestimate them when used properly!

I don't get in renno.... When I have an 8 plus stack of arbs and NO KILLS with themm at all.. Then I start to wonder why get them at all...

ive been loosing a few duels lately as in 5 in a row and accidently quit one lol anyway about the arbeleisters i think at a certain stage of a duel they are good to produce i think , however as i found out threw loosing my last set of duels ,i see ballistas are a must and a alot of them would be main priority , i have also noticed that i cant deploy them all because of resources so i go back to my archers , so now ive got alot of ballistas i cant deploy but with my funds i can deploy archers , eventually i get the ballistas out and have alot of archers also , im thinking now since there is alot of archers out there it wouldnt be a bad idea to start training arbeliesters as i feel okay with all my archers and ballistas so wy not start eventually deploying the stronger troop arbeliesters over the archers ,but remembering always the ballistas.they are good in attack when there is a few good stacks of them i know i used them in a camp , but to produce them in a duel it would have to be timed right wat turn to start training them i havnt figured that one out yet ,i hope this made sence :]

right now i have 2 stacks of 10 arbs, one is level 2 and one is level 3 i usually build a few, but i never focus on them. if someone breaks through to your ranged, they defend well for the price, and because of their range they need to be in front anyway. i wouldnt call them totally useless.

i ((kinda)) like the ole arbeleisters because the have a fast movement and can keep up with scouts,,but remember for them to kill you have to be very close to the target,,they also do well defending against melee attacks

bah i love albs i have taken down bali build with them and won just need to rush in close

I was able to fend off an imminent loss with strategic use of arbs.

Sure they are weak but they are ranged and don't receive the penalty.

I think the biggest strike against them is that they are generalists. They have less range than archers, which are also faster, cheeper, and available in any barracks with the ranged upgrade. So, if your opponent has archers and you have arbs, they'll be getting free attacks in on you the whole time (for less money) while their melee (and perhaps yours) keep their ranged units safe by providing a buffer your arbs can't bridge. Even in a tower, they're outranged by lone balista, where archrs will at least be able to retaliate. So, they're not great as ranged troops.

As melee they have more damage and hp than any basic unit besides scouts, not to mention more att and def, but they are segnificantly more expensive than scouts and slower to train. They have the advantage of being neutral, which means no unit gets a bonus against them, but the disadvantage of being neutral which means no unit gets a penalty against them. So, if I have both spears and swords, I can attack with both rather than having to use only one and protect the other(if they had scouts, lets say).

As a melee-ranged they have the advantage of getting in close with their ranged foes and standing back from their melee ones, which can be helpful when the game dynamics change, but in most cases your foe will not be so kind as to allow this to happen, and if the arbs can't do this they just end up being mediocre in both roles.

So, as to the topic, arbs are not 'useless', but there are better units to perform any task arbs can do (cav for meleeing ranged, archers for ranging melee)...arbs can simply do them all. They're the jack of all trades, if you like, but the fact that they excel at no single task can make them difficult to justify (particularly when there are cheeper alternatives). They do add some versatility to your line up, filling whatever role you need at the time, but under the current troop system (which penalises training a wide variety of troops) it's a tough sell.

One thing they do well is handle castle seiges in the early game, before squires and bali show up in number. They'll have the ranged advantage over archers (in a barracks or tower) and be able to handle melee that make it through (with the castle bonuses buffing them up they'll even stand up well to scouts). They are an interesting unit, and I do think they can have a place on the early battlefield (before the late game, where they're vastly outclassed by their ranged and melee competition), but it's the same argument as spears (only arbs are a bit better), are you willing to use your time training a unit which will eventually be obsolete to secure a short term advantage? I think, outside an early castle attack, the answer most times should be no.

Archrs are good fodder, anti-fodder, and last hitters in the late game, scouts are the same (in melee form) with a huge speed advantage over the late game troops (with master down to 7 and bali to 5) which allows them to chase and surround well. Arbs, well, they can't do much late game; their range is simply bad by this point, they are too weak to do much damage to anything but fodder anyway, and they certainly can't protect ranged very well against falsh/mace/HC, even squires. My advice to those insistant upon using arbs is to get them early and put them to use, because their value decreases quickly as the game goes on.

Last Edited : Saturday, 20 September 2008 - 08:03

well said blood baron :]

I admire your willing and patience and ability to give the answer to every question in the most proper way !
after you, there are not much to say

Last Edited : Wednesday, 16 July 2008 - 06:20

Blood thanks for a very reasoned look at the ARBS.... You did ssay one thing that also rang true with me...


"but under the current troop system (which penalises training a wide variety of troops) it's a tough sell."

I've always fought in these types of games with the combined forces idea in mind. I've found that in many cases that does not really work with WOL... By spreading my techs I've been burned many times and really have had to reign in my tendancy to expand to higher level troops.

As you pointed out, I've been able to resist very nicely (if not win with Scouts...