I've noticed that WarOnline.net the game has a disturbingly low amount of documentation. Seeing as how I'm such a terrible player, I'm here to try to help whoever might be as mediocre as me at this creation of Master Requiems.

The first open discussion I'm introducing is that of the early game, in case you didn't get the title.

How do YOU, Mr. Anonymous guy/gal on the other side of my internet cable, begin your campaigns? Your duels? What's the difference?

What opening strategies have you employed?

Pressure (keep the enemy under pressure while you run rampant)?
Rush (try to win the game quick)?
Tech (make a quick jump to a high-tech unit)?
Power (Take an early expansion node)?
Push (Big early-mid game attack)?

for me, there is a big difference between how I play camps and duels. I used to play them the same and that got me losing every single duel I played... so I tried adjusting duel strategies and now I actually win every once in a while :p

my duel game I guess from your options is a mixture of Pressure and Rushing... I wouldn't rush without a good opening, so until then, I would press the enemy while I go gather resources and stuff... once I see a good opportunity, I go all-out-attack.

in camps, I'm more of a builder. since I don't have the comfortability of just a one-on-one, I tend to sit back more and strengthen my army with the resources available around me while other people duke it out. the only time I rush early is when I see I'm next to an opponent that I feel I can crush with ease.

all of the above!

that's why Renno's so tough... he does everything at once and does it so well you can't fight it!

The trouble with at least the *horde rush* is that if it is not excecuted by a master like Ice or Funker among several others, it can backfire when used against a competent defensive player who has a good economic base and has researched and developed just the right counter measures;

So that if the amateur *horde rush* guy manages to beat his opponent in the field very early, but has over expended his resources without the proper means to finish the defensive player who then manages to regroup with a stronger force and plenty of time to turn the outcome around;

the *horde rush* guy cannot take the attitude that he had the game won and that the game is just being prolonged by the defensive player because I have personally lost some against master *horde rush* guys, but have also won some against amateur *horde rush* guys who weren't able to finish me and didn't have the means to stop my counter;

So I have basicly learned to play it by ear, but have still not quite developed the right counter strategy against the master *rush guy* and have still not quite developed a universal strategy that is a counter strategy for "*all of the above*" except to continue to play it by ear while avoiding dividing my forces excessivly and avoiding being attacked first.

Funker literally seemed to concentrate on eliminating my forces in the field first with almost complete disregard for gleaning resources.

rex

I have personally developed my rush tactics to the point where they make average players feel overwhelmed. I've played a few players who are probably truly around my skill level or a little better and have been able to beat them comfortably just because I rushed well enough.

the only flaw in my game is not completely understanding the potential counters. since I know nothing about successfully playing defensively, I wouldn't know how one properly defends against a rush. because of this lack of understanding of defensive play, I'm left not knowing what to do when I run into good defensive play.

I try to anticipate what resources and potential troop production my opponent is likely to have at each point in the duel based on what I've been able to do... but in the games I lose, I find my opponent was able to spit out a significant amount more troops than I anticipated.

once I learn how it's possible to sit back and build without really getting the resource advantage, I might be able to perfect my rush.

*Harold swoons as Crazy Li rushes at him*

that is pretty much how our duels go, don't they harold? :p

Your opening strategies are really tactics which must come together into a larger strategic picture: in other words, you can and should be doing many of them at once, as they are not mutually exclusive nor will any one tactic win you the day.

You always need to keep the enemy under pressure, and you can do that even while retreating. Your goal is to force the enemy to make choices, preferably choices where neither option is good, and exploit the weakness of those choices (even ones which objectively seem to give them an edge). If he’s overwhelming you in the middle of the map that means he’s neglecting other areas (so fall back and grab the easy resources), or if you attack on two fronts he will have to choose one to defend or let them both fall. Doing the inverse, i.e. letting your opponent do this to you, will always put you at a disadvantage and should be avoided. Remember that it’s not necessarily the “strongest” player that is exerting the most pressure, all that force could be ably deflected and turned against them as they become overcommitted, it is the player who is forcing the other one to make committal choices and exploiting them.

Power is another essential part of any game plan; there’s never a time when you should exploit every opportunity to take a resource node, particularly one that is uncontested. Players who neglect this type of “easy expansion” are the ones whose armies inevitably lose steam midway through the battle. In fact, nearly every vet marches their troops right past the convenient resource piles and tries to pick up the contested ones first; the easy ones will be there to be picked up at your leisure. Now, taking a castle early is another matter, I’m merely talking about the piles and buildings.

Push is also something that will happen as a matter of course; if you’re applying pressure, and getting resources, conflict is bound to happen in the early-mid game (in a duel, obviously, the conflict will happen from the get go). If you get boxed in with a bunch of players who don’t want war, it’s all the more important to be aggressive with your resource grabbing early. If you take a mine that your opponent was expecting to get themselves chances are they’ll go to war with you rather than fight someone else at a disadvantage; even if they don’t, you’ll be in a better resource position when the fight comes to you.

I saved the rush and tech tactics for last because I believe them to be unsound. Again, I look at chess for some insight into this matter: while 4 move mates, and speculative gambits, are widely used at the lower levels, master players rarely play these openings (and the ones they do are the ones that are at least somewhat sound). The problem with them is that while they look dangerous, and can catch unwary opponents off guard, they fall very quickly if the defending player knows what to do.

Both the rush and tech strategies rely on your opponent making a mistake in reaction to your play…if they do not then you are usually left with a significant resource, time, and ultimately troop disadvantage. The best players rarely make such mistakes, and will not panic when they see an early rush or tech: in fact, I welcome the sight, because I know they’ve already put themselves at a disadvantage to my play.

If you feel you can make a rush, or tech, work in a particular case than certainly do it, it is the fastest way to clear out easy opposition. The mistake too many players make, however, is making such tactics the staple of their play: again, if the opponent plays accurately, you will always be at a disadvantage (since you’ve neglected your economy), and against a good player that may be your last mistake of the game.

Last Edited : Wednesday, 14 May 2008 - 23:15

I used to pride myself in being able to get tax reform by turn four, but masters of the rush have caused me to put it off in favor of the advanced weapons and armor;

So my tech-tree in Duels looks more like this now:
Taxes;
Military;
Advanced weapons;
Advanced armor;
Building Materials;
Commerce;
Market Wares;
Tax Reform;
Market Tribute;
Archery;
Advanced Training;
Market Tribute II

The order may not be exactly right, but I'm showing all of those now in the Proving Ground game
and I now have expert training upgrades in all three barracks
and I'm looking to go to Expert archery in one barracks in a turn or two.

PS:
I also have Market Tribute III now, but I was thinking that in a Duel, I might hold off on that until later; although against a master rusher, you have to consider being forced into defending your castle until you can take the offensive;

and those market tributes keep you well enough supplied to get the tech and troops you need to make that counter offensive.
However, I think I need also to discipline myself to not divide my forces to the extent that my master rusher has me out gunned when he confronts me in the field;

and that will necessitate my using one stack scouts (which will also give advance warning to my enemy's approach) to try to glean the resource piles that I can far afield and even making sure I have a ten stack commandeer available with my main army that I will divide only within regrouping distance of my castle to glean the resources close at hand.

Against the master rusher, it is important to get even a few small stacks of spearmen as fodder and to hold his scouts, as well as scouts of your own and a few descent sized squire stacks to take out his massed archers and rock troops which don't usually get more advanced than pikemen.

Of course because he will possibly manage to get you under siege where your squires will be your most valuable unit along with your ballista and extra archers of your own, it is important also to manage castle protection and castle defence;

and because you have built a surprisingly strong economic base, you will even manage the expert weapons and armor;

but here under siege is where you can possibly cause the rush to backfire because you will be chopping away at his offensive units surrounding your castle while he (even with master weapons) is having difficulty hurting you due to your castle defence and expert armor with commandeer assist where possible for both offence and defence;

So here is where the fine line is drawn because he will need rams or cats to break threw your now castle walls that you have also managed
and that will cause a lull in his production of scouts, archers, ballista, squires and pikemen which may be now down to about one stack of pikemen, one stack of squires and half a stack of scouts with just his ranged units and commandeers;

So at some point I figure I didn't need some technology in favor of more troop production sooner (which is already at master training in at least two of my barracks) with the ability to take the offensive a few turns sooner because once my master rusher arrives with cats and the ability to build multiple towers, it's all just about over because he will take out your barracks with just a few cats in two hits with his firepower which is even enhanced I believe with the towers and of course his commadeers.

Anyway time (turns left) and timing is critical and the only defence I am thinking will work against the master rusher is a good early offence.

rex

Last Edited : Thursday, 15 May 2008 - 16:01

offensive people love troop production...

Military
Advanced Training
Taxes
Advanced Weapons
Expert Weapons

Aha
Yes I see now.

rex

but don't take my post to be the divine truth, though... I am by no means an expert or even all that good at this game.

Well it explains why I'm out-gunned and losing the initial confrontations CL

and as I had said to you once before:
"from tiny acorns, might oaks doth grow".

rex

I'm often out-gunned early myself. I've enough knowledge of the game at this point to recognize the effects of most techs in play and it kinda becomes easy to figure out what they took and a general idea of what order they took them in.

of course that'll all be impossible now with the new tech system since you can grab several at once and throw off the opponent. but when you only could do 1 a turn, it was easy to figure out through observation.

Military 1st can be one of the hardest things to do if you're not a good money-manager because you'll find yourself with tons of strong troops without the money to actually deploy them or to buy your techs. but if you know how to play that way right, it's so incredibly strong.

Well CL yes and no,
there was a time when it seemed I couldn't afford the troops I was producing some of the times, So it just didn't dawn on me that besides AW&AA that the rush guy was also getting AT because I was brainewashed to get the gold to be able to afford the troops;

but admittedly there were times I should have looked more closely at his unit #s because I would find myself thinking the guy might be exploiting a movement bug that was mentioned by Falk I think ... something about 6's.
I didn't ever make an accussation though ... just thick-headed thinking sometimes.

Anyway,
CL when you control all the gold and resources on the map, the market will do the rest even if you end up having to get expert trading

and actually over-production exceeding income was more a problem with the old version than this one and in a Duel where the most advanced units are squires, pikemen, ballista and a few catapults, eventually even the weakest economy will be able to afford them.

rex

Last Edited : Thursday, 15 May 2008 - 21:06

I like to start my tech tree with taxes so that I have more money to spend on starting troops

As a counter argument, I might say economy first is one of the hardest things to do, particularly when someone is bearing down on you: to have the discipline to think long term, and the skill to make up for your short term disadvantage. Of course, it's not about which ones harder, it's about which one works better . If all we were talking about were troop production than sure, your best bet is to get it started early and let your production catch up. However, we're also talking about techs, techs which cost a lot to research, techs which can tilt the military scale in your favor. All's well when you're rushing someone early on, push them back to their castle, and then boom they come out with expert level upgrades. Now their 'crappy troops' are wreaking havoc on your expensive investment and all you can do is bleed more funds into a losing battle or cut your losses and retreat knowing you're now at a disadvantage.

The best players know when they can't win a battle, and will withdraw before it becomes a decisive defeat; you can't expect good players to throw themselves at your superior army early on, nor can you expect to capture a good player's castle without substantial troop and barracks upgrades. Thus, what is the point of an early military rush? If you can't support the troops economically (and you really can't), and you can't be assured of any lasting military victory (which you can't), all you're doing is spending resources on the chance your opponent will do something stupid.

If you're wondering why your game seems inconsistent (i.e. you do really well sometimes, and really badly other times) it may be because of this military first strategy: it is primarily dependent upon the other player making a mistake to be effective. Sure, you can get better at doing a rush, but the bottom line is if your opponent plays correctly you will lose every time...you simply don't have enough advantage/power that early in the game to force the other player to make lasting concessions (meanwhile, by researching military before economy, it will take that much longer to get your finances in order). Remember, you both start with the same army and resources: a few turns isn't going to do much to change that. They've also been pumping out troops every turn; they may not be pikemen (or whatever), but early in the game their numbers will just about match your quality (particularly if they have better upgrades) and will (at the very least) give them more tactical options (which most good players would prefer over brute strength).

sometimes a good strong force can actually be all you need in a duel... if you can overwhelm your opponent early, they may never be able to recover. I've had this happen to me numerous times. most recently of which was against Renno, which is when I realized that people were getting Expert Weapons fairly early in the match... I couldn't do anything to stop his onslaught because of that attack advantage.

I am also thinking that it takes agressive resource gathering. I was stunned at the number of troops & the upgrades an opponent had gathered. I didn't have the cash to keep up.