And hopefully DG will get answers so he doesn't have to feel the pain anymore.

Newer players would have no idea who I am, I arrived shortly after the 'old' "new system" (don't class me with the old hands like that loveable scamp Mog) and I shortly departed after my computer got the nasties and never returned.

I'm here to rectify that.

Desperate. Daring. Sheer tactical audacity. All these and other similar phrases have absolutely nothing to do with my ascension to the rank of +100 Camp points, or whatever its' called, thanks to my brilliant tactical mind, raw strength of will, and gratuitous one-hit inactives in my camps.

However, being the terribly poor gamer I am, I've been beaten by many poor strats and my micromanagement of troops is terrible (as evidenced by my ridiculously low 49 battle rank).

I'm here to make amends and beg people for advice.

Hopefully my mucho time playing Starcraft, Age of Empires 3 and Warcraft 3 will help my game skills, inasmuch as RTS can be transferred to the TBS we have now.

So, I'm asking: I need help.

There's a few things I can remember about strategy, from the golden years: TaurusRex making a mockery of the market, CTD making a techtree (bless him), Biscuit (a god, believe me) telling me to build a third barracks as soon as possible (now, that should prove how bad I am: I didn't always do this) and Mog (Neb? Some amiable clown) telling me the sagely advice that "losing all your units is a bad way to play", or something along those lines.

Perhaps I should write "Lose all your buildings and you lose the game" on a 3x5 card and read it before each turn.


Any tips for a returning newbie?

Edit: I mean, what should my first techs be? When do I scout, what are my first rax configurations, when do I make the effort to expand, basic diplomacy, etc? I need a starting guide, and I hope that anybody can spend the time to help me.


In regards to the name, I hereby offer an open challenge to somebody willing to teach me in a friendly duel, who can take the time to annotate and/or take screenshots. I hope the once tight-knit WoL community still stands firm, eh?

Last Edited : Thursday, 24 April 2008 - 07:43

Had any offers yet? There are plenty of players better than me, but I'd be willing to play you in a 'training' game. I've been wanting to play a game where both sides document their moves, thoughts and strategy. I'd like to see what/how other players think. Whatcha think?

We could log it on the CoC website (please, Mog!), and maybe even post it all here once we're done for the enjoyment/learning of others.

Neb

sounds like an interesting idea... but I dun even know how to play myself :p

so Neb would be a much better person to learn from.

Well, Neb, that sounds mighty fine to me. We both get what we want: you get to pubicly prove how awesome you are, and I get to publicly prove how awesome Neb is .

I'm up for it whenever it's possible to start. Seeing as how its' friendly, and how duels are turn-based, you'll need to give me a few hours to figure out how to beat mass HC with only a few Swordsmen by the time we get to around Turn 8 .

That reminds me of tales of Biscuit, and how he would tear his own castle down to get Ballista 24 hours into the game... good times, good memories.

Whaddaya say?

Biscuit loves his ballis... especially now that they're so powerful against everything...

No thanks, I'll pass. My goal is not to prove how awesome I am...as I know I am not awesome. You'd have to get Coopels or gala for that.

So, I'll go about my idea in a quieter manner...

Neb

I was kidding, Neb... I hope I haven't lost a potential opponent because of that :S

We need not publically release the game at all if you wish, I merely want a game whereby I can swap notes and strategies with my opponent after/during the game.

What happened to ballistas? I need to know these things.

ballistas when used right are the strongest weapon you can obtain now. they have ranged defense, which means no other ranged troop can hurt them. they have hex advantage over marks... those two things ensure that a mark won't beat a balli.

marks do more damage and can attack from max range without damage loss... whereas ballis do more damage from closer... BUT put a 10pop comm near a balli and you won't even notice the reduction... the extra hex of range means that they're that much easier to keep away from melee... just put some good defenses in front of them and you're good to go.

I recently dueled and lost to one Endimion, and I wish to post the duel from my point of view. I lost it in sixteen turns flat, so it won't be long, more of my trying to trailblaze reports on battles and duels, camps would just be ludicrous unless it was six players and they were all willing to co-operate, and even then barely worth it.

In short, i need an easy, free picture hosting site. Halp, halp, plz?

most people use photobucket for images

also, Endiminion is amazing at duels... don't feel bad that you lost so quickly. he will rip most players here to shreds with ease. I was fortunate enough to nab a victory over him before he REALLY got good, but I'd be afraid to duel him nowadays >.>

Oh, when you see my match you will realise why I lost. I'm not used to the balance of power in duels, I played extremely ambitiously and paid for it.

I annotated on-the-fly, so you'll see my point of view AS I'm playing, and I'm adding annotations that point out what I thought I did wrong in post-match analysis. This should give two-tiered analysis that should help you "get in my head", as it were.

Unfortunately I'm on holiday from tomorrow to Tuesday, so you'll need to wait for it

DARKGUY00000 VS -Endimion-

The First Engagement


I've always wanted to try duels, they having been introduced after I arrived yet before I left: but I never managed to do it. I hosted one, and bam, it begins...

Author's note: This game is annotated with remarks I made AS THE GAME PROGRESSED. I will make seperate comments showing what I thought went wrong after the game, and these will be seen obviously through the tag "Post-game analysis".




Turn I

I begin with a fairly average build, for me anyway: move directly towards resource nodes, research Taxes. It will pay for itself after four turns, and I have gold to spend.

Turn II

I hit every nearby node, the majority of my forces moving to the southern corner with a small party to the west. Looking at game news, he seems to be creeping a good deal, the barbs seem to be all he is hitting. I wonder on this as I put down a Military Academy and research Military, and continue my movement to the south, doing a little creeping of my own.

Turn III

Made the decision not to repair my nodes, but more importantly, I can see the enemy. He's pushed through the centre, and, should he desire it, will be at my castle gates in two-three turns. My next two scout stacks will come out next turn, I think. I need recon on my opponent, but I can't afford the tech: I'm going market all the way, baby. I'm relying on my home-field advantage and a bit of luck to defend me while I can secure the recently-explored left-hand side, which is devoid of any enemy presence bar barbs, which I will clear in time. He'll have a window when I'll be low on troops before my market techs make themselves cost-efficient, that is, around turn nine-twelve. After that my superior economy will be able to hold him off, then I'll have the window before his economy catches up. It's a game of chance, but what isn't?

This is all in the short term, of course. My build is still technically flexible, I can plop a third rax down instead of a market next turn, but that is if, and only if, I can't hold with what I have, and he's going a fully-fledged rush, which, in any case, will end up with me winning if he doesn't win in one attack. And unless I make a serious lapse in judgement, the castle, plus the fact my troops are two turns closer than his are, should win this for me.

Turn IV

He's in no mood to fight me, however, and his scout and spear stacks decide to not engage and instead continue creeping the middle. I do not mind. I throw down my marketplace after researching commerce, and trade 400 wood for 970 gold. In time I aim to complete my Tax Reform tech, but this will come after a blacksmith, as I have visions of ballista to help defend my foray northwest. I will no doubt need squires soon as well. My goals, in this short time, is a squire tech, followed up quickly by tech to ballista, followed by Tax Reform. During this time I hope to have captured the northwest, and will use Castle Protection and the derivative thereof, Palisades, to defend myself. Towers will also be needed in time. Also on the nearby agenda is that of the Market Tribute techs, which will bolster my economy to no end. I will, next turn, trade 400 wood, and all my gold, for Market Wares, the prerequisite tech to tribute, and forgo my Advanced tech for that of a blacksmith, on account of the fact that I will have no money for use of a barracks and my economy as of now is not powerful enough to deploy high-tech troops.



(to be continued)

Turn V

He's making an aggressive southwestern advance, straight towards my castle. I've compacted by nearby troops into a shell, which should keep me safe. Luckily I was planning on a small-scale northern mobilization myself to cover my tech build, but the timing is out. His attack will be defended, and I'll have lost nearly no time at all. It's true I've spent a good deal of money on my economic tech and it is extremely likely he'll have the jumpstart on military-based technology, but I'm banking that my market will pay out in time for it to matter. He doesn't seem to want to launch a full-scale attack, so I am doing fine.

Oh, dear. I have only now checked Endimion's statistics: he's the eleventh best duelist on-site. Well, at least I will learn. There goes the plan of thinking he's a noob rushing me out the window... time to bunker down, and hopefully my economy will allow me to get more ballista faster... despite the fact he has three rax pumping and I has two, and no doubt he'll already have archery researched.

Turn VI

Run! He's attacking flat-out, and the gamble will not pay off. I'm in deep, durn trouble, hyuck.

Turn VII

My mine is in deep trouble, and I'm going down. Hard. Seriously. I can hold my castle but foolishly my tech is out of position as part of my inexperience, and losing my smith, in fact, will lose the game flat out due to my need of archery tech. This bites... what's worse is that he's also discovered my northwestern swamp move, and up there its' my two 4pop spears, one 5pop sword, and 5pop comm vs his one 5pop spear, one 5pop sword, and one 5pop comm. I think I can hold that. I hope I can hold that, because my mine is at about 8% health, and my archers aren't in the castle yet...

Turn VIII

Turn eight rolls around... and my scout is dead.

*weeps*

I lost five archers on the retreat back to base, but two archer stacks sit comfy in towers with comm support and decent defense. I need to hold until my pikes arrive, then I can blitz this scissor/rock army. On the other hand I need to really, really, really make sure my market doesn't get converted, which is about to happen. I can hold this. I can hold this, especially since a flank is sweeping from above: my northwestern army is pushing down, and making itself known. I need to hold. I need to hold. I need to hold...

Oh, snap, the bugger stole my blacksmith. He'll pay for that...

Turn IX

Or not. I concede on turn nine. My ambitious tech build was too ambitious, and while I could theoretically shoo him out, his game is just too far forward and he's too good a player to come back from. Congratulations to -Endimion-, on a duel well played: and he'll teach me a thing or two about powering: do it off one-base, not going too far away. The fact I lost my mine, I don't have a smith, and that my market can't survive means that I'm toast. He can camp out 'til cats, and I can't even counter. GG on a game well played.




In hindsight, it's fairly obvious what I have done wrong: I didn't give my opponent enough credit. Been a born and raised campaign player, seeing somebody rush you triggers something in your brain that makes you relax. If I had been alert, I would have pulled everything home, and guarded with my life. My late scout due to my tying myself down living on razor-thin margins didn't help matters.

I think if I had known he was going all-out assault, I could have held on. My buildings were placed terribly, but the only thing for that is experience, I suppose.

My entire game plan was to wait and to win in the late game, obviously, so I really went wrong from Turn Zero. I've never seen such an aggressive assault so early before: I got complacent, and thought he was merely trying to pressure me. His strategy just trumped mine, and from when he decided to rush, and when I decided to go early market, I had lost at that

point in the game.

Endimion obviously outclassed me, and I hope to play many more duels in the future.

Please excuse the sheer amount of text. I took a good ten screenshots, but I'm having trauma uploading them, so they will arrive as soon as I can get them up.


~DG.

hehe... Endi will do that to ya

but yah, anyone good at duels will give you an aggressive rush like that. the easiest way to win is being overbearing.

even I will come at you hard with an aggressive assault early and I suck at duels :p

Building placement is absolutely critical; fail to do that well and, as you found out, you'll loose a game you could have won. Unfortunately, it's one of those things you only learn through experience (unless you can get a player to give up the goods)

It's hard to tell what you specifically did wrong without screenshots, but I think you're right you didn't give his early rush enough respect. An early rush may be nothing to fear, but (particularly when you're going for early economy) you need to play very accurately to defend against it. If your tactical ability isn't up to snuff (enough to defend an early rush from a disadvantaged position) than you're probably better off going a more middle of the road approach (with an earlier 3rd barracks); it may not be as economically quick, but you won't be in quite as bad a spot should they try early game stunts. However, the most important thing you can do in the early game is avoid loosing your troops . It sounds silly, but avoiding loosing or questionable battles is vital, and is much easier in the early game (when you won't run into too many surprises).

I will say, though, that going 3rd barracks asap is not a necessity. Now, with the recent economic changes (never mind Req's proposed troop making changes) the time you can delay it reasonably has shortened, but so long as you know what you're doing delaying that 3rd barracks is not a death sentence (even against an early rush) and in fact can be quite strong. A few extra units of scouts is not going to be game breaking; early game battles are a test of tactics and troop placement. You aren't going to out muscle someone when you have, more or less, the same army and techs .

*With the new changes a thrid barracks is most certainly not necessary early game*

Last Edited : Tuesday, 21 October 2008 - 08:13

I am currently engaged in a duel against one Dwarrior, in a sure to be entertaining Demonic vs Demonic duel. I will again be annotating this game as I play it, and hopefully I'll get the screenshots worked out this time too.