ok bravo

is a free for all game a clan match i would say no. to me a free for all game is every body against every body no rules everything goes.
if it was regular camp then your would have the no double teams against a player(2 on 1) or nap breaking. which i have been done too in the past and it is not fun. but it happens.
a clan game is 2 or more teams playing against each other and double teams are expected and done lol. and it is fun some times like was done to me in D~S game and i am still in it D~S 24 turns 2 on 1 against me men it was great.

also double turns are when you have been doing moves at same time every day and you miss doing your turn at that time and do it later and you opp. moves during that time. such as in merc game i was doing my moves at midnight every night and i had to pull a 18 hrs shift at work and did not get to do my moves until 10:30 that night almost missing the turn that day and the person i was attack at his castle got to make 2 moves before i did. he was doing moves at 11pm and he did 1 st move then nexted one at 1015 that night. i have noticed it in camps but i do not think it is cheating it is done to all players so i do not think it is cheating.

as for nap breakers i know of two and they know who they are and if they ever get in a camp with me again there a** is mine and i am going full force to just wipe them out and there also other players that these players did a nap break to also. but it was done to me when i was a newbie in camps and no one has done it since to me yet. but Nap breakers you know who you are and the guns are pointing at you by several players that you did it to we know who you are.

Last Edited : Tuesday, 26 February 2008 - 10:43

Not sure if this helps at all; but I'm trying

In real life, a military unit trains in drill, to march at different speeds. Many enlisted personel think this may be a complete waste of time; well, that would be why there are the enlisted, and why they are controled by officers.

In a real war, the idea is to set a known pace for your forces that is much slower than your actual potential. This is to lull, or trick the enemy into believeing that is your maximum range. Of course, any "smart" enemy would know this "basic" military tactic. But for some reason, it still works, and we still train our grunts in "useless" drills.

The idea is, when you actually "sucker" the enemy into comitting his forces, you then start moving at your max speed to flank, or "double-turn" the enemy possitions.

This has a devistateding effect on the enemy comand, moral, and hardpoints. Is this cheating?

(Just a side-note; I play at 12:00, or "oh-hundred" every turn I can, and have NEVER double turned; but I thaught this info was relavent to this thread)

what you describe doesn't exactly sound like it compares to the double turning... it sounds more like moving your scouts 5 hexes at a time until you see your enemy within 10 or 11 and then just start rushing them in at max movement so you can reach them for your attacks.

Heat, what you describe is not the double-turn bug we have seen exploited here before. The double-turn bug involves staging your turn times to gradually edge up turns on an opponent, eventually being able to attack twice in what for them is a single turn. But if you are playing your turns consistently each day you cannot be using that bug.

Tubthumper
D~S

There is no 'double turn' bug.

There is a game 'feature' which allows people to get two attacks on an opponent before they even get one. However, these attacks are in separate turns, and perfectly legal within the construct of the game. Just as breaking NAPs, backstabbing and generally being ruthless are parts of the game that are not illegal. Does it suck to have these things happen to you? Yes. Is it illegal or a 'bug'? No.

Neb

The game is a mix of turn-based and time-based, on purpose :
- a fully turn-based camp would be much less interesting and flexible. Team play (coordination, HQ meetings, etc)would lose a lot of meaning
- a fully time-based is the opposite extreme : people waking in the middle of the night to watch if the enemy
showed or to do some moves... It was the past situation and, from what i hear, it was mostly lived as too time-consuming.
That mix of turn-based and time-based spirit has some good and bad sides, related to each component.

The discussion will likely go for ever, so what about trying to be pragmatic and analyze what is realistic or feasible ?
The points below are about time concerns in general.

- for those who still have a doubt : WoL clock is unique, and the beginning of a turn is simultaneous all around the globe. Of course, the watch indicates a different time locally : a person living in NY can play at midnight, it
is 6AM in France or Spain and 5AM in the UK, etc.

- About playing at fixed time.
Great idea... if at all possible !
Now, what do you do when real life keeps you away and you connect sooner or later ? I live in two houses and cannot always connect the same way or same time, depending on my work duties or family situation.
Should players in the same situation exclude themselves from all camps because they cannot ensure they will play at a fixed time ? Or send excuse notes when playing sooner or later or even deliberately skip their turn ?
This would be going way too far, it's a game. Moreover, it is coded like that... (it's no bug)
By the way, who can promise at the beginning of a camp that he/she will ever be playing at the same time ?

- About skipping a turn "to be fair" :
personally, i HATE when an enemy goes inactive or even just misses a turn. If i win at the end, i have the impression that the victory is not complete. So i would certainly NOT expect any of my opponent to miss a turn because he/she is late or soon, or drunk or whatever

- A wargame is a simulation of a miltary situation. The more realistic, the better the game.
Moving troops in a timely manner is one of the basic military skills.
I am not here talking about creating double turns situations on purpose.
I am talking about very elementary military attitudes, one of the most obvious being to wait to see where your enemy moves to adapt tactically or strategically.
After, it's part of the military Art to create situations where you have a proper (and winning) answer to your
opponent moving back or forth, left or right.
Is it seriously forbidden to wait to see where the enemy goes ???

- About late moves
Have you already taken a look at the map in the middle of the day and changed your mind when seeing the enemy has gotten closer : then, those 5000 gold you were sparing to get the "Expert Trade" tech [that you will never buy ], you decide to spend them right away for a bunch of maces.
Yes ?
Then what ? You now have a late stack to move next turn !
Boooo ? Or... You showed a good reactivity ?

There are even cases where you want to have two waves of attack in the same turn. I see that as a superior use of the time/resource/terrain. It is war-craft by essence (not talking about the PC game, talking about the art of war).

When joining WoL, i spent some time browsing the forums, and clearly learned a lot from that amount of info & experience. I clearly remember the posts describing that two-wave thing. At the time, i thought to myself : "wow, there is tactical depth in that game". Should that aspect of the game be censored ?

My conclusion would be :
- what is forbidden in a camp should be clearly stated at the beginning of a game, and we should make it very visible in the forums
- double turns can happen because the move times of both players fell like that -OR- because one of the players did
it on purpose. In the latter case, it should quite obvious and the players should talk and/or post
- it is not realistic to expect everyone to move at fixed time
- the consequence of the above point is that everyone should expect the enemy to attack (does that sentence sound strange to you too ?? )

Last Edited : Wednesday, 27 February 2008 - 18:00