Discussion Continued:

Knowing where that 3rd player is and what that player is up to without that player knowing that I know is Intel. Based Espionage' or spying.

While the example of Intel. Based Espionage in my first thread on the subject is a gross simplification of the method, one can see how proper building of Diplomatic relations with other players can lead to effective Intel. based Spying in future situations.

Point 3 - Treachery:

One must be extremely careful when deciding to utilize Treacherous acts against another player on WOL. To violate one's faith in you is to likely break your Diplomatic relations with that person - and you can quickly gain a reputation as one who is, in fact, treacherous. Still, there is a place for treachery on WOL, and the more subtle forms of it can be applied with little or no ill effect to your Character or standing within the WOL community. Like the before mentioned Diplomacy and Espionage', Treachery is most effectively employed when you have communicated well. In fact, subtle and effective Treachery that does NOT ruffle the feathers of others is most likely to be utilized only if you have FIRST built a strong degree of Diplomacy with other players, and SECOND when you have used that Diplomacy to use Intel. Based Espionage' on others.

A good example of effective Treachery is defined in the following theorhetical scenario:

Player A. has diplomatic relations with Player B. Player A finds out from Player B that the Location of Player C is relatively in the middle area between Player A and Player B. Player C does NOT know yet about the location of Player A. (So far, this is simply Diplomatic Intel.)

Next, Player B informs Player A that Player C is massing a force to attack Player A. (Intel. Based Espionage').

Finally, Player A communicates with Player C and tells this player that Player B is planning on a later attack of Player C. This communication causes Player C to reconsider attacking Player A, and instead Player C attacks Player B.
(It becomes Treachery when you use Player B's Diplomacy-based information against him, rather than using it against Player C.)

Once again, this is a gross over-simplification of just one way you might conduct effective treachery, but one can clearly see how it can be done.

In Summary: All facets of communicating on WOL have more than one possible purpose, but effective communicating leads to a much higher degree of fair play. Fair play is capitalized by each player having as many options within the rules with which to work, and effective communicating broadens you options by making you far more capable of utilizing very powerful:

1. Diplomacy,
2. Intel. Based Espionage', and
3. Treachery.


Jmacattack D~S

Last Edited : Monday, 16 July 2007 - 16:16

once again your amazing me with your extreme understanding of the game and the ability to put it into words that can outline it in short which is something i''ve struggled with myself. This is exactly what i was trying to explain to foster yesterday, diplomacy is the life blood of this game and to discout it puts you at a huge disadvantage. all of these are excelent explanations and to really be a good player you must be constantly using all of these together especially in high concentration games. one of the most important things you can know as a new player is that making small talk or getting to know the players around you or even thoughs far away from you is essential and can lead to them either refusing information to others or supplying you with some. and just as important as the last is to never wholey trust anyone or put yourself in a possition to be taken by suprise. use information you have or fabricateing information to lead other players astray can buy you time to put you full military into expanssion without fear of backstabbing supprise. and even with help from other players, sometime the most effective way of gathering information is by studying the game news and casualties to discover whos truely winning, were everyone is relative to eachother, and what troops they are using (or rather at the moment dieing ).

I could have wrote all that...but i don''t have the patience, anyhow on point 3 treachery

1. Respect is something earned lose it and you make alot of enemies quick in this small game where every other Vet is in a Clan with Clear Friends

2. When i started a guy attacked me in 4 camps in a row, 4 times in a row he lost, if i remembered him i would do it again, you can see who is in what camp

3. Breaking alliances/NAPs...disgraceful, to me its fine for that player to fight 1 v 5

4. Lol just to add this for *cdl* how do you gangbang 3 on 1 and lose, I seriously hate you both ur a complete joke...

5. Treachery is not cool period, go ahead and be an opertunist fighting a weakend enemy, but remember that nice rank you get will be gone when you fight a real battle, learn how to play the game.

in the end its a game and its more for just having fun, and trechery tends to put a damper on that... though in all out wars when its against worthy oponents and lots of them trechery has its place especially if you intend to win.. once again foster trechery dosen''t nessesarilly mean breaking a nap or attacking someone when they are down. it can often be used to distract someone so you can shift troops or fight someone else, it doesn''t always end up worse for the betrayie

Thank you Crimson... My example of Treachery had nothing to do with Pact breaking or double-attacking, as that is NOT considered diplomatic in nature at all. In fact, if you go back and carefully read the part on treachery, you will see that my suggestion is that you conduct yourself in such a manner that the player you are being treacherous against doesn''t even know that you are doing so. Espionage'' leads to treacherous acts, no matter what you say about always being above board and honorable. The fact is, we must sometimes work in the shadows of things, and gaining information so as to perhaps manipulate other players into fighting on our behalf or simply fighting someone else instead of ourselves is not cheating - it''s just smart play.

Jmacattack D~S

Last Edited : Tuesday, 17 July 2007 - 11:07

also if your determined to be honorable you should find out what exactly that means to you, if your determined to be truely honorable then you will end up waiting for people to finish wars that will roll onto other ones until people finally decide that they want to attack you, and often they will use methods much worse and actually looked down on. ultimately you have to decide who your loyalty lies with, its best to keep you interests in mind and help thoughs who have proven before that they deserve it... otherwise theirs no reason to go out on a limb or put yourself at a disadvantage

this is just to much...not like we can really ban a "bad" player///

LOL - I always enjoy when people mix the pure strategy of the game with the emotional facets of the players - which is precisely what all of this is about: Finding a way to strategically (objectively) utilize the emotion-based (subjective) decision base of those you play with or against. Crimson, this isn''t about simply accomodating others or finding a way to build a reputation - this is about playing for months or years WITH a reputation of fair play - and using that fair play as a strategic tool.

Treachery is NOT about gang-fighting or turning on an ally, it is about using information for yourself and against your enemies, all the while being appropriate and courteous in your communications with those that you call allies and enemies.

Jmacattack D~S

i think you mixed up what i said, thats sorta what i ment

I think my muscles make my troops stronger end of story...

Good foster, good. Please take care of my light work for me.

Jmacattack D~S

lol

bump

where did jmacattack go? i think we would have gotten along so well. Game mechanics, blah blah blah, troop production, blah blah blah, tech trees, blah blah blah. Where is the diplomacy, the spying through other players, the feeding of disinformation. Some players are becoming too soft. lets start making war... love is overrated