With the new battle method, any thoughts on optimal army size?

Since a unit can only attack once, it seems like there may be an advantage to making ten 5-unit stacks versus one 50-unit stack. The ten 5-unit stacks can attack multiple armies, while the 50-unit stack can only attack one army per turn, even if they are small stacks easily destroyed.

For example, a 50-scout stack going up against a 50-ballista stack. Each ballista attack on the scout unit would take out about 10-16 scouts. But with ten 5-scout stacks, the ballista unit could only take out five scouts per turn as they approached.

Would the ballista get to defend multiple times in a single turn if attacked by several 5-unit stacks? Or would it just destroy the first one and get no further retaliations?

Of course, that many separate armies would require a whole valley full of military academies!

I think, as you suggest, that we may see the return of an old tactic of many 1 pop units that resulted in attacking units quickly using their bp...new version...5 pops would replace the 1 pop of old, and actually prove more effective since each unit has only one attack now, using ALL of their killing potential on just one 5 pop enemy.

Additionally, with the change of the takeover/repair rule (enemy within 6 spaces preventing the process)...5 pops will have a new role of slowing down your enemies resource growth, resulting in more turns needed to just control your own area, not to mention lengthening the process and time required to invade and takeover of another players kingdom.

Last Edited : Wednesday, 31 January 2007 - 11:28

I have thought a lot about it. Optimal size will still be 50 pop because you won't generally be able to get more than two stacks on a unit as, even with the 50 pop limit, it will require a rather long line of attack/defense. And the unit type of choice will more likely be macemen and ranged. A 50 pop macemen will be fairly deadly. This change will make the games more like the trench warfare of WWI...lots of stacks, large formations. In addition, the cost of military academies make the many 5 pop stacks unfeasible.

Also, capturing a castle will be extremely difficult now...because of the new movement change, the only one attack per unit, and the ability to flood the floor with units that can only be attacked by two units once per turn.

But you could still use the 5-Pop stacks as a skirmish line to protect the main attackers as they approach. Since you can move through your own units (correct?), only the front line of 5-Pop units can be attacked in your skirmish line, until you decide to pop out with the big guns.

Come to think of it, isn't "more strategy and tactics" one reason Req wanted to go to the 50-pop limit?

Plus, with only one move per turn, those 5-pop units will be needed more for scouting. We no longer have the ability to move 2 hexes, refresh to check the map, then repeat, until the movement points are exhausted. One unit will need to jump into the unknown, without the ability to retreat on the same turn if necessary.

I don't think I'll care for the idea of continually building new military academies though. I'd rather have the ability to upgrade them to increase army limits. I don't like the PC strategy games where I end up with dozens of buildings with no practical purpose other than they exist.

I agree with you on conquests...certainly, it will take far longer now...changes made, (such as no takeovers with an enemy within 6 spaces) will add an average of 5-10 additional turns (perhaps even more than that) for a castle and area takeover.

While I agree the building of additional military academies could be costly, if you're engaged with another player, you'll be losing 2,3 or more of those 5 pops each turn from enemy attacks, therefore replacing them. So at most, IMO, only requiring maybe 1 or 2 additional academies as compared to normal gameplay in the old version.

Last Edited : Wednesday, 31 January 2007 - 22:28

Like before the change i think a mixture of sizes is going to work best. Luger makes good points about scouting and about using small stacks as skirmishers. Also like in the battles of the past small stacks can be used to take away all of the retal and dieing to free up that hex for a big stack.

I noticed in my short testing duel with TR that the small stacks have their uses like i said, but at the same time the large stacks are needed for their power. A few times in that game i was able to use bigger stacks to completly kill one of his stacks. Thus breaking through his line and since we can now move through our own units i was able to break into his ranged because of it.

Most likely it'll take testing to see what is the best method, but that's expected of any change.

I don't usually have much to say here in Strats, but for those thinking strategy is gone, if they saw Coop bore through my front line (and I even was able to salvage and retreat to a descent defensive position behind mountains with a narrow pass), sure you would think his army was a coal miner's boring machine;

and since Luger has gone public, yes he had his three archers grouped in the rear and hit my front line with them, then smashed through hitting my small scout with his larger scouts and then came through his line with a sword counter to my spearmen;

and yes ... just as it ended he did reach my first archer.
It was awesome ... it even almost looked animated because of how quickly he was excecuting the attack and I was refreshing the map.
We played a twenty turn unranked Duel with 20 minute turns that lasted a little over three hours and it was a lot of fun.

rex

Referring to Luger's comment on using small pops as scouts...
Yes, we won't be able to move 2, 3 spaces and refresh and move again, possibly 3 or 4 times...however, the 2 phase movement we have now will work even smoother (for spy missions), I think.
Since maximum movement per turn is divided into equal phases, one will no longer have to guess (or calculate...sometimes, incorrectly) on how deep into 'unknown' territory to send that scout and get him back to his starting position...simply use the first phase in...refresh and look about...second phase out...same starting position and same ending position... 'simple'.

Last Edited : Thursday, 1 February 2007 - 00:13