A review of everything covered before, and then maybe some more. The original plan 3 years back was to give the newbs some material to go by - no-one likes to turn up in a game, get outclassed by folks who know all the rules inside out, and then beat you stupid - it just makes you want to leave, rather than stick around. Obviously, I no longer have to worry that some newb climbing the ranks plans to unseat me, so I can safely give away info in the spirit of Hecate night a couple of night's back
(And why not? If Tarim can have discordia.... )

First up, rock, paper, scissors.

Think of as, spears, swords, cavs. Not hard and fast but a good general rule.

To go against type means the right type gets 140% attack strength and the wrong type 70%. In REAL terms, it simply means the bad type needs 2 of their side to meet every 1 from the other.

There's a reason I don't say 'men'. The fact is that the numbers are misleading, and not all types are equal. In fact, the rock type is usually smallest in it's class and the scissor type the biggest. Note, not strongest and weakest.

What's more, in the medi class, there is no advanced cav/scissor, no expert sword/paper and crucially no master spear/rock. So not only does rock usually come out worst in the same class, but the best class has no rock and scissors, the stronger, misses out lowest down the order.

It does make cav troops more popular, which has led some players to go spear type heavy. Adjust as you see fit.

An example everyone who has ever played a campaign or most battles will appreciate:

Spearmen vs scouts, rock vs scissors:

Spearmen, average damage 4, health 20, spawn rate 54, cost 18 gold.

Scout, average damage 6.5, health 30, spawn rate 36, cost 38 gold.

Differential - 62.5% more damage, 50% more health, 66% spawn rate, 111.1% more cost.

We can say you pay somewhat over-the-odds for the privilege of getting scouts, although we're not counting their other perks like moves.

Basically, you need 3 spears to 2 scouts just to achieve the same results. So THEN we use this info, and re-apply the 2:1 rps ratio: 3 spears to 4 scouts to get similar looking numbers. (4 to 4 works better if you want to use the calc to compare, but remember they weren't an ideal fit to begin with! )

But BEWARE! That's not the whole story. The simple fact is, by going against RPS you get more punishment than you should, and do less than you deserve. So even though the numbers LOOK good, you're being deceived again: the fight may have cost you more in scouts than the other guy lost in spears. Going with a straight 100 vs 100, I got....

Spearmen
Health : 20 Damage : 3 - 5
Count : 75.5 Exp : 5

Dmg Taken : 490.10 (380-608)
EXP Gained : 124.8
Troops Slain : 24

Scouts
Health : 30 Damage : 5 - 8
Count : 83.18 Exp : 7.8

Dmg Taken : 504.70 (384-640)
EXP Gained : 120
Troops Slain : 16

432 gold's worth of spears are dead. But 608 gold's worth of scouts are dead, which means the spears only lost 70% of the value of the scouts. Even though it LOOKS like 50% more spears are dead, and they did the same sort of damage.

The numbers lie to you.

There are cases you would want to go against RPS however.

Especially in a battle, if you have taken the retal off a unit, then you only have to worry about your reduced damage, so it's only half as bad. A cheap unit of the right RPS type would also mean they get to do less damage in return for this privilege....!

Watch out though - it works the other way around too - if you give up a weak unit of the wrong rps to suck up retal and you THINK it's all gone, it may still have some left because the attack went much easier than anticipated. This of course is a campaign problem and not a battle issue, where it's one retal a turn only anyway.

(cont.)

Last Edited : Saturday, 18 November 2006 - 18:57

RPS also has it's part in campaign strategy too.

As previously mentioned, rock gets the sharp end of the stick (no pun intended) when it comes to troop types, something to bear in mind when teching up. What you CANNOT do, as a newb, is buy master melee hoping to see all the best troops - there will only be two more available.

As regards how to mix the melee types, there are a few schools of thought you can try depending on how risky you want to be:

One type, all troops: makes it the easiest to get troops out and means you don't have to retool to many types, and lose production turns doing so. Sufficient force can help you beat a mixed army by crushing the wing of their army that's meant to counter you in vastly superior numbers, meaning the remainder either face you even or are at a disadvantage. The down side is, once THEY change troops to match, you're in serious trouble - so no-one really seriosuly considers this as a long-term plan.

All types, roughly 1/3 each: the most retooling to worry about. Doesn't fit neatly into a barracks each since you must leave room for ranged too. However, you have a counter on hand fo whatever type the other guy wil bring, although you may not have enough of it. What you CAN do is the previously maentioned plan of atatcking -WITH- RPS to get the lowest retal, and then making use of your wrong RPS troops with the lowest overall losses to your side. This however, relies on your opponent allowing you to do it, a gamble in itself.

2 types, 1/2 each: this approach assume that so long as you have 2 of the 3 types in great number. You have the benefit of both worlds here - reduced retooling and can give a braacks solely to each troop area, but you also have the flexibility of always having a troop type that is -at least- level with the target type if not in your favour.

E.G. a rock/scissors mix vs a paper/scissors mix - the rock is countered by paper but is good for scissors - the scissors are good for paper, so all troops are good for something. For the right-side mix, the paper does well against rock while the scissors can fight other scissors. Either way, aggression yields a level or better fight.

Granted, you may be unlucky and find that you're only really fighting a level battle, but you can't end up in a situation where you are utterly countered, no matter how much the other guy retools.

That's a fairly quick start on most of what I know about RPS, trying carefully not to tread on other subjects I could be heading towards later. As usual, those in the community in a bettr position to judge this, correct and modify, do so and all may comment freely. It's for everyone, so make good of it!

Also, I'm not limited to 2 a week, so this time I'll throw in stuff pretty much as and when I like. It really COULD make a book when I'm done this time!
Use in conjunction with the existing 'lectures' - part 1 goes to the first lecture, 2 to the second, and so on. Consulting both improves the chances we've 'covered all the bases' and hit every topic. When I'm done, I want this forum to become pretty much the source of almost every WOL strategy known to man. Or woman.

I just found an uncovered spot reviewing my set of notes, concerning the value of each troop type within it's RPS series. So I guess I'll do that now
Stay tuned.

Last Edited : Saturday, 18 November 2006 - 16:16

Rock series:

Basic = Spearmen
Advanced = Pikemen
Expert = Macemen

Req discussed at one point switching pikes and mace around, although I don't know if this ever happened, or is still in the pipe dream stage. For now I'll assume it's still only pending.

Campaign:

Spears are the first and obvious choice. They work because they're available from the off. If you use big stack tactics (max damage rules off perhaps) you have ready stacks to merge with, and you have a type that fends off the usual scout suspects so often found in your lands.

A curious side benefit of the large numbers of spears is that they capture unclaimed buildings more successfully than other types. As far as I can tell, all melee troops bearing the capture ability for unclaimed buildings happen to have the same level of skill in it, be they spears or be they mighty heavy cavs....so spears may be your troop of choice if you need something to quickly mop up unclaimeds, resource piles and all your comms are busy.

In the long run though, choosing spears is likely to do you more harm than good, even if you plan to go rock heavy. Why?

- The 999 pop limit offers you the worst stack when it's spears of any troop type. So maybe not the choice for skirmish games...

- When ballista come out, all basic troops are prime targets. But spearmen are even more so that most given the sheer numbers they need to be effective. Even if/after you've dropped basic troops, you will still have residuals left after your early bouts, and you can't afford to 'drop' troops in a game where deployed troops count big.

(My apologies, 2 msn chats and the 'strictly' verdict are doing much to slow me down )

- Spears have the lowest stats in general, so they especially feel the pain of fighting superior quality troops.

- They'll help make you look bad on the news page.

When considering expansion troops, you have a choice between pikes on advanced and maces on expert. It's an interesting dilemma, but at least after this you can make in informed....

Pikes:

Pros:

- Bonus against rival RPS type. If you can get them to horses more often than not and your opponent is swimming in horsies, this is the way to go. This effect makes them MUCH better vs scissors than mace are.

- Cheaper to get at than mace at only 2k gold for the upgrade. Certainly much easier to mass-produce.

- Can be gotten sooner, being a lower tech. Crucial if you want them for an early war. Also improves the odds that later in the game you may be able to build a high-level stack of them, negating the con of lower skill.

Cons:

- Less quality than mace. Lower skill values as a result, meaning just not quite as good as troops in general.

- Slightly bigger numbers needed per stack, so a little more vulnerable to ballista later on.

Maces:

Pros:

- Best quality rock troop on the market, making for a more reliable type in general.

- Infinite retal ability means your opponent is forced into using paper troops to stop them and/or focus their ranged to it. If backed into a corner, they'll keep on dealing out the carnage for as long as they stand, so they're a safer choice in terms of your end game rank surviving a vastly greater opponent.

- If there's much risk you won't be using rock vs cavs, then this troop is a must-have, and will make the pikes look like the toys of amateurs.

- Lower numbers mean more survivable vs ballista.

Cons:

- Expensive and harder to reach. Can't rely on them for early conflicts.

- Not the best troop vs cavs. Partly negated because the cavs won't normally swoop on them due to the infinite retal, but still disheartening that it's not the chief at the thing that defines it's existence.

End analysis - pikes if expecting or facing big cav contingent, maces otherwise.

(cont.)

Last Edited : Saturday, 18 November 2006 - 17:34

Battles:

Predominantly the rule of battles is you must bring your full force or as near to it as you can to bear on the enemy every fighting turn, therefore space is limited and the campaign rules are less important.

Spears are not worth considering as a fighting troop, although their position as weakest troop normally buys them a place as the 'retal absorbant' on the field.

Maces compress the most fighting power into the smallest area of the field, but their special of infinite retaliation is also much more vital in a battle. Even if it faces the bad side of RPS, it can prevent a charge of troops because it has to be totally destroyed, and all the while it's doing more damage back. The only truly safe way to get rid of it is at range. Even facing heavy cavs, a full class and THEN the whole 'rock smaller than scissors' thing apart, enough mace can certainly put a nice hole in a loose cav or certainly slow an advance by them a bit.

Pikes by comparison are usually too far underclassed in the context of the troops typically played to make a real impact. At most only a 2 or 3 on 1 is usually possible, and this doesn't do enough to really anything bar scouts, which are rarely used as anything BUT scouts in a battle.

It's possible some strategies may be able to make use of them, especially ones where a pike leads and gets best value vs a cav, then a swarm of maces finish up, but highly unlikely. But at least the info is there if anyone wishes to examine it as an option.

The most popular rock-based tactic to my knowledge is a heavy loadout of maces, usually in expectation of a predominantly heavy cav army. This tactic wouldn't be possible with pikes for the simple reasons the pikes don't have the space to bring as much force to bear and even if they did - cavs would badly outflanked them except for in a perfect-shaped gap. In such a case mace win again because outflanking wouldn't earn the heavy cavs much.

More common is to mix the mace with other types such as knights or cavs for a more balanced approach. But be aware the options exist, also beware a paper counter to this.

(cont.)

Paper series:

Basic = Swordsmen/Militia
Advanced = Squires
Master = Knights

Req's little oddity here is the renaming of swordsmen to militia. To make it more confusing on occasion in parts of the system they're still called swordsmen. The original intent was to bring them in line with a new approach that never materialised, but has remained because it could still occur. However, at this stage the change is PURELY cosmetic, and they are the same troop with the same stats they've always had.

Campaigns:

Swords have most of the same benefits spears have at least to some degree, and slightly less of their pitfalls. They already exist 'from the off', have big enough numbers to grab unclaimed buildings (but can struggle, so beware). You can get more easily and stack them with ease.

On the downside, mass invasion by spears tends not to happen and the better sword types easily make the basic type obsolete. Mostly, it still suffers BADLY from the size issue that leaves it wide open to ballista, but almost always people dump them so you'll likely not see this facet in action.

Squires are possibly the chief pick in the paper set for a very simple reason - ranged defence of 50%. Their primary roles are to protect cavs from roaming spear types and to attack any ranged that they are able to reach, both roles benefitting greatly from the enhanced ranged defence. A possible 3rd role exists where they may be required to hack through palisades in order to storm a castle pre-siege-tech.

Usually the basic and advanced tiers suffer greatly at the mercy of ballista due to their higher sizes, but squires reverse this trend again with their bonus. Since ranged trouble tends only to get worse as a game progresses, this also extends the useful lifespan of squires. This, combined with the slightly higher skill render swordsmen utterly pointless once you have the chance to change them.

The rival for this role is the knight, which sits two tiers above the squire. Because of it's late arrival and master class, you are unlikely to see them in any large stack numbers so ballista tend to fare much worse fighting them, although still better than vs squires. (Typically, marksmen are usually the better choice vs master level troops, but we'll cover that in the next topic and why marksmen aren't usually chosen.)

Pro's, mostly the extra skill and the retal-less damage means serious problems for a mace-heavy player. But otherwise, the cons of the sheer cost of getting to master level (2k+4k+8k gold alone, not counting other resources), the delay to retool, the lack of ranged defence (which given the ranged-heavy nature of almost all WOL conflicts, makes that ability next to sacred) and the fact that massed mace are still fairly rare mean knights are not usually the best option in this category, at least not regards campaigns. In a much longer campaign they may make sense, but mostly they won't.

Battles:

Again the need for force in a small area rules out the lower types - but in this case, swords don't normally even fill the fodder role due to the fact they live too long (even though spears don't always die out of the way to allow the real attack through) and are more expensive as well, meaning points are wasted on them when spears are better at it and other troops are more vital.

As regards squires vs knights, usually knights win out this bout simply because again, advanced troops are just too far behind to make a difference, especially with a troop two classes ahead to choose from. Also, the increased numbers of mace in battles and lower numbers of ranged also play in knight's favour and out of squires.

Last Edited : Saturday, 18 November 2006 - 18:26

An all or heavy knight's pick is only usually deployed if a mass group of maces are expected - otherwise, almost any cavs will make it a suicide pick. Squires might feasibly make it into a pick if a player is known to obsessively overpick ranged, but in most normal cases it won't.

(Sorry this is getting so long, but it needs to be an encyclopaedic answer - a sort-of textbook reference, not something intended for a quick skim

It'll be over soon enough - only one type to go! )

(cont.)

Scissors series:

Basic = Scouts
Expert = Falchioniers (falchs )
Master = Heavy Cavalry

Interesting to note here is that scouts at one point had 18 moves, but even 13 is damaging enough in the right hands. Other cavs still have 12, and these units have the highest moves of any units. The demon class doesn't replicate this pattern, so beware if expecting to follow this in battles.

Campaigns:

Scouts are the oddity of the basic troops because their lifespan actually far extends the initial few turns and they aren't easily replaced. Reasons for this include the lower susceptability to ballista than other ranged troops, and generally better stats. They're also the only units to carry 13 moves, and available immediately making them ideal for rush strategies (comes later ) and raiding - but ALSO as the prime early combat troop despite the name.

Also, in the other sets usually there is the need to counter a particular kind of unit or use a certain special, but the other scissor specials are rather bad compared to the blessings the other classes give out. The better cavs are also missing a move and cost quite a bit to get to.

Sadly, the likes of me and others consistently going for cav heavy picks mean that most players now expect to see a lot of cavs and deliberately pick a lot of pikes/mace to counter this in advance. Even despite this scout/heavy cav super-stack are not as rare as you might think....

The cav role is usually outflanking, which just adds to the value of the scout because of it's extra move. If you are reliant on tactics like these for your play, seriously consider backing it up with movement techs in the areas you'll be using it, but be careful not to buy the tech long before you need to to prevent wastage on the returns that could be had spending it elsewhere.

What the other cavs WILL offer you is extra damage in their specials (directly for falchs, better average in the case of heavy cavs) and a vastly superior skill for your hard-won cash. They also weather a LOT better in the face of the ballista that tend to be around later in the game, although scouts are not entirely victims even late on due to their extra speed and slighlty lower vulnerabilty than the swords and spears sharing their level have. Falchs are only really a stepping stone and so should only feature in your plans if the full jump to heavy cavs is simply too steep. The move to the higher types should be considered if it looks like the conflict or even game will be long and drawn-out (much like this text ) and so would only leave scouts getting shot by ballista more than their fair share. Truthfully soemthing that makes sense but I never did get around to carrying out. At least give it a look, and see if it's for you.

Battles:

Scouts, like swords, have no use as fodder, but do fill the spotter role nicely (advance, refresh map, retreat all in one turn), or scouting flanks. Falchs again sadly have no real role in this case, usually supplanted instead by the heavy cavs that dominate medi class warfare so heavily.
In this case however, the cavs are there for really only one reason - sheer power. While they can charge through gaps made by themselves and/or other troops given the chance, mostly they are there because they offer the best in power in a limited space, and can bring crushing combined force on almost any other single unit. It does mean however that like scouts in campaigns but even more so people have come to expect it and mace heavy picks are not unknown simply because the mace are that sure to have -something- to do. Even so, the sheer power is usually too much for single mace stacks, although an all heavy cav pick is still a big gamble, especially against a player using fodder and who knows how to pin your cavs.

That's gonna have to do for the night, since I've well-overshot by hours how long I planned to be doing this for. Even though in the human brain it only really takes seconds to make many of these decisions, it's hours worth of typing. Quite scary when you think about it.

I've realised I've missed out the other classes in battles, but it can wait till tomorrow. At least this mega-mammoth type of post shouldn't be needed to give the other old lecture areas the coverage they need...

All usual permissions and so on granted to do as you all see fit with it. It is the point after all.

But please don't try to read it all at once!

The promised addendum to last night's post-fest, before I dig in for the day and I have too much to eal with to post more!

Rock: Battles, Demons

Rock still hosts the smallest of all troops but among demons Squinches fail to take the 'retal sucker' role because the similarly priced flying troops, Neehts, have more moves, also double as spotters, and are able to pick the place they wish to 'retal suck' at. It seems trivial but remember the loss of the unit would cause a blood splat which if stood on, reduces combat performance. A unit that can possibly put this splat on the enemy side instead is therefore better suited to the role.

Similiar to the medieval class, the middle rock troops (Preatacs) don't usually see service because of the power/space concept. But unlike in the medieval class, there are as yet no special abilities so the greater Demon Lords almost always get this role where possible.

Demon Lords are undeniably the best rock troop beating medi's cavs on average damage by 46.5 to 57. Sadly, mixed fights don't happen as much as they could so this fact usually goes unexploited. However, they're still not the power troop of choice because the flying troop Demigods take it instead. Demigods however (just to confuse it further ) cost more for what they do, so many demon players prefer to pack out with Demon Lords and their counterpart in paper, Shaevars. For this reason, an all rock pick is generally unheard of but most players will retain a couple of Demon Lords given the chance.

Be aware none of the demon rock troops muster any more than 9 moves to the usual 10!

Paper: Battles, Demons

For demons paper is just more of the same of rock where troop types are concerned, due to the lack of special abilities. Nnargles are not worthy fodder, are too slow, and along with Cjaars lack specials and fail to produce a credible threat on the field. Therefore, when choice presents itself, almost all players dump them in favour of Shaevars, the demon paper troop of choice.

While Shaevars are less powerful than Demon Lords, they do have one other oddity that makes them more valuable - in the demon class it's scissors that get short-changed, not rock so there's more for them to counter and less to threaten their existence among other demons. The Shaevar's average damage rating is 39 making it fair competiton for the Demon Lords at 46.5 and still fair competition to Demigods at 75 if a struggling a little and needing a combined effort (although to be fair, ALL troops need a combined effort vs demigods...). Demon all paper picks are possible because of this arrangement but still unlikely due to the big danger from flying troop outflanking.

Again, take note of the move speed of 9 that hampers this troop set.

Scissors: Battles, Demons

Scissors are the badly short-changed side of demons, but far far worse than rock has it among medi troops. Scissor troops are still 9 moves compared to the 12/13 moves of their medi counterparts, but also their lower troops Baow and Quonos Demons would badly struggle even against Squires and Spearmen among the medi troops and are no use at all against the demon paper troops unless a scenario forces a mixed bag and provides Nnargles/Cjaars they can attack.

Orphaths are the demon top scissor troop but with an average damage of 14.5 you would hardly think so and unlike the mace/cav relationship among medi, there's an even bigger counter to the poor hapless Orphaths just one step ahead, not even mentioning the Demigods. As such, combined with 9 moves and no specials, most people will not even consider this troop simply because a) it's not space effective and b) even if they were taken they're much too easily countered with the field dominance of Demon Lords.

(cont. - Barbarians)

Last Edited : Sunday, 19 November 2006 - 05:28

Unless Req took serious action to help this hapless lot out, no-one will ever take demon scissor troops seriously on the field. Pay him a visit to the suggestion box if you like!

(should have been on the last piece but it didn't fit )

Rock: Battles, Barbarians

A newer class that more closely resembles medi in nature. Troops in this set include Brigands, Barbarians and Slayers.

Brigands get the fodder role in this class like their Spearmen counterparts.

Barbarians have the potential to be a decent middle troop but won't cut it while in battles simply due to the much bigger Slayers being around to limit their usage in that role. The retaliation special bonus is nice but comes too infrequently to be of any value, instead being the sort of bonus that would be better spent in a campaign as a blocker troop over a longer period. (20% chance of 50% more is much too low to rely upon in a battle.)

Slayers make the top rock troop and are well balanced with their other RPS counterparts but also share the pikes 'rival bonus' special making it key to get them to their correct targets but among barbarians all RPS troops have the much greater King troop to worry about to which all other types seriously struggle. The scissor pick has the best chance to fight such a powerful troop so it may be worth keeping your Slayers relatively safe so they can reduce the threat of enemy Chiefs to your Kings.

Paper: Battles, Barbarians

Choices among paper here include Grunts, Beserkers and Bandits.

Grunts are even with Brigands in terms of stats, but aren't really any better or worse at the fodder role.

Beserkers carry the Knight's special of no retaliation, but lack the power of kights to really make this count - part of what makes a big knight line-up powerful is to deliver all of that killing force while losing nothing of the troops that gave it, requiring the enemy to suffer before even doing ANY damage back in melee. Since space is a premium in battles, Beserkers miss out on this chance to fulfill their potential but would be an interesting pick if they were choosable in a campaign.

Bandits are the chief paper troop, but their special is much too underpowered to make any real difference on the field or to plan for. They make a handy counter for Slayers, but are unlikely to be much more than a couple of pieces in a rounded force.

Scissors: Battles, Barbarians

Choices are Ryders, Renegades and Chiefs.

Ryders are not worth being fodder, but their 12 speed makes them an option for spotting duty.

Renegades share the mace's infinite defence ability, but with so few Barbarians around to attack them this ability makes little sense and is little to offer in a battle.

Chiefs only have 10 moves (bad for a scissor troop, but not AS bad as the situation the demons find themselves in), but pack the best damage of the RPS troops and more crucially share Squire's 50% ranged defence ability, important in a longbow-littered environment. Their chief role will be to help neutralise Kings and attempt to make a path to get to ranged troops, but beware the Slayers made MUCH more important because of these roles and the sheer power of their ranged defence special!
Powerful, but need watching carefully.

Some more material. My apologies again for spraying all over your nice forums.... - the details on ranged/flying/neutral/comms will come in on the rnaged lecture review and rework. The battles piece should be a lot easier for the big vets to pick apart since my knowledge here is a lot more scatty, especially regarding the Barbarian class, but I've taken a good stab at it and a little community effort should get it to the quality it needs to be at. If the vets will part with their hallowed secrets.

Enjoy!

nice stuff you know the game. if u can later on, explain me how the retail works?(i am learning about camps).
I means if he has 100% of BP will do more retail if I attack after he just attacked me? stuff like that.
Thanks

Retal damage wroks differently for different modes.

What is sure is that a retal is always a full attack. Even if they were barely capable of mounting it, it's still a full attack. Part of what makes mace a little more dangerous since you have to hit them with ranged for the most part to avoid giving them lots of free attacks that way

As you already know (given your huge battle rank ) the deal in battles is one retal per turn, afaik always only one unless it's attack by knights, retal by mace or out-of-shoot-back-range ranged attacks. I've heard it may be two with def mode on, but I never found out if that was campaigns only or battles too. Again, afaik only camps.

Retals seem to be based on an unofficial behind-the-scenes BP. As you also know in battles any attack 0's out your BP, hence the one retal rule.
In campaigns, lots of little attacks don't work since they will all invite retal, but eventually it wears the unit out. What IS sure is that this unofficial BP is the same amount total as the normal BP is - so if you get attacked for a full retal and take all the damage....the retal is done for that time, probably until the same time it would take 40% bp to tick back up normally. If you take a retal and the unit gets splatted instead though, that's when you can't be sure the retal has been fully sucked up.

The only time I can think of that the BP you see and this...'imaginary' BP wouldn't be the same, is if a unit only uses some of it's BP to attack, and then someone else attacks it (meaning it does a full retal). It would then still have enough BP to launch another attack, but would be done for retals.

Defence mode mostly just gives extra defence skill at the cost of attack skil, but also it's meant to give out extra retals too

By and large, the policy to go with though is that if you plan a multi-attack on a certain stack, lead it with a cheaper, good RPS type so the least amount of damage is done to you, and you absorb it all. If you fail, you'll just get 2 full power retals instead.

If the 2 retals for def mdoe is true in battles, correct me so we have a more accurate info source.

In battles you get no 2 reatil on D mode. In battle u have to be carefull who do u put in D mode... I have seen player put a knight on D mode. that is instant loss battle.
if u have time, use the example of retail with your spear and scout example.
its 12hr game and imagine a 2nd attack from spear on example 1 at the 6th our and in the example 2 at the
13hr.

There's no 999 pop limit.

Sage is correct, however there used to be a bug that allowed a stack over 1000 to take no damage or retal. I THINK that was fixed, but using a known bug like that is an offense.

If there really is not limit on unit size any more, it just increases the risk folks will employ mega basic troop stacks and just give the bali even more to pick off.

The bali bonus is 1% for every 2 troops in the target stack, so 1000 troops is essentially handing them a 500% bonus. If they have many bali, you're in big trouble - the other guy can wheel out bali in tiny groups to avoid the max damage limit and the big basic stack is in REALLY serious trouble.

Remember kids...

'Winners don't use *crosses out 'drugs'* SPEARS'

Not like that, anyway.

It sounds mad to gear your entire game around that one troop, but bali are floating about so often and that's such a major special it's suicidal to ignore it, really.

Well, I can do winged as it's more of a strategic deal then one with numbers

First off, only demons have winged troops. The ranges of all winged troops are very high: 12 for neeths and 10 for scorpies, wyngerns and gods.

This added to the fact that they take no movement penalty for terrain ( ! ) and can go over mountains, walls, buildings and even troops (your's or the enemy's) makes them incredibly mobile, more so then any other troops in the game could possibly ever be. Think the blitz vs static defence, it's that kind of a difference.

The first and weakest of these troops is the neeth, also it can be said for a battle at least, it's the most useful and it will be taking the retals of your enemy and often doing it behind his back, saving you the bloodspot dilemma already gone over by ctd .

It's uber cheapness for a battle and is also very, very nice so you can literally have dozens of stacks of the them.

In a campaign however, their ability to hit weakly and die quickly would most likely be a drawback, but as they move so fast they can take a lot of resource piles and buildings, not to mention their worth as scouts.

Next up is scorpies. They hit a little harder and die a little slower in a battle. They're really only there for one purpose: to kill neeths. But it's a gamble as to how many you should take as you don't want to run out of neeths first in a battle with demons!

In a campaign they would be a fine troop to hit enemy ranged units with but not much for melee.

Wyngerns are next and IMOP the most useless of the demonic troops. Their cost vs their power is just not worth it in a battle. Unable to even take out a stack of scorpies yet costing 4x as much!! They also die fast. If you see your opponent with wyngerns, start counting, you're sure to be gaining points

While they have slightly more power then a scorpie, their cost even in a campaign is most likely to keep them a rare sight as their equivalent will most likely be shaevars, a much more powerful, yet less mobile troop.

Last is gods. As stated before, the most powerful troop in the game even without the super mobility offered by winged troops, but they do have massive cost, 1500 points in a battle!!!

Seeing more then 2 stacks of them is rare and usually will mean a victory as he's so short of other useable units you're bound to win through attrition (assuming you have got at least a dozen neeths and retal takers).

They also have a great advantage in a battle as they usually have mp left over after an attack, so they can retreat if need be (also meaning your opponent is usually a bloodspot).

Their cost in a campaign is also going to be a problem making them a semi-rare sight, but if you see them, rest assured that player is producing all he can of 'em.


(Edited for English speakers by Mog)

Last Edited : Tuesday, 21 November 2006 - 22:35

It's becoming tough to have time to do the next section, but most likely it'll get fitted in at the weekend.

It'll cover ranged, flying and neutral - essentially the specialists for each class. Less of a debate on ranged and more of one on non-rps, since each class is basically it's cheaper RPS types and it's more specialist support troops.

i thought that the ballista bonus was limited to 50% max?

or am i thinking of comms +50 attack bonus?